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  1. #1651
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    No. Sharon is Peggy's niece, not her daughter.
    Ok thats right. Thanks. Love your Superboy avatar btw!
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  2. #1652
    The Kid 80sbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Ok thats right. Thanks. Love your Superboy avatar btw!
    You're welcome and thank you! He's my second favorite character

  3. #1653
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Something I never realized was that there was never a physical Quantum Suit that the Avengers wore. Every time we see any of them in that suit, it's completely CGI.

    It makes you wonder if, in the future, studios may choose to have costumes created solely through CGI instead of actual costumes.

  4. #1654
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Something I never realized was that there was never a physical Quantum Suit that the Avengers wore. Every time we see any of them in that suit, it's completely CGI.

    It makes you wonder if, in the future, studios may choose to have costumes created solely through CGI instead of actual costumes.
    I mean, it seems like most of the main costumes for heroes are becoming more and more just CGI...just look at Iron Man, or Black Panther and Spider-Man in the MCU.

    Even Batman's cape gets CG'ed on now.

  5. #1655
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, it seems like most of the main costumes for heroes are becoming more and more just CGI...just look at Iron Man, or Black Panther and Spider-Man in the MCU.

    Even Batman's cape gets CG'ed on now.
    Yea Ironmans went from alot of Pratcial with CGI touch ups. To straight CGI. But mostly they make cool suites and then just enhance them with CGI. Which isnt a bad thing Set photos of Black Panthers civil war suit were very underwhelming. But then the final product was beautiful. Wish they could keep the streamlined new suit but use the details from the old one. I dont like the cat ears and preferred the older suits texture.

    But yea I don't think we are going Green Lantern anytime soon but I think most suits will be extremely enhanced with CGI. It might not be a popular opinion but I prefer the CGI capes. I feel like they look more cinematic. Outside him looking like a body builder on steroids I loved Snyders Batman look. How the Cape flowed and how he moved(Despite being muscle bound).

  6. #1656
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Very late to the party, but I finally saw Endgame. Here are my thoughts organized as best I can:

    - Man, Tony Stark has a lot of legacies in the MCU. I mean, Rhodey obviously, and Pepper has her own armor now, Spider-Man fulfilled a "kid sidekick" niche, and he's got a daughter now who might take after him in the best ways. On-top of that people keep speculating Riri Williams will show up eventually.

    - I guess I'm kind of glad they finally dropped the pretense of Steve moving on from Peggy and gave him a proper ending with her. As much as Cap tried he was always a man out of time and a man who could never truly move on, but he finally got to go back to where he truly felt he belonged. At the same time, I still feel like as a result of all this they totally bungled Sharon. She deserved better.

    - Thor feels so all over the place in the MCU. It's like they can't make up their mind what kind of character they want him to be, and here he comes off more like a parody of himself or Jeff Bridges in The Big Lebowski then the actual Thor. I was honestly surprised he was still Worthy enough to wield Mjolnir, but a part of me thinks they only had that happen so Mjolnir could be in the present day so Cap could wield it.

    - Thor getting to talk to his mom was nice, even if it didn't seem like that pick me up really changed his character much when he came back. I'm surprised Thor didn't try to talk to Loki in his cell.

    - I have mixed feelings about Professor Hulk. I mean, it was always the proper "endgame" for Bruce and Hulk's characters but having it be off-screen just kind of cheapens it for me, and they only seemed to use it for more jokes then anything else. I did like that scene where Bruce had to pretend to be Savage Hulk but I wanted to see him cut loose a little more. The most impressive thing he did was using the Gauntlet and the shout-out to Secret Wars #4, but the latter was nowhere near as impressive as the comic version.

    - Hey look, it's Ronin! Even though that identity only lasted five minutes. Ah well...

    - I don't know how I feel about Natasha's sacrifice. I mean, knowing her solo movie is coming out means it will probably stick as much as Gamora's did, and it fit with her character development to see her sacrifice herself for the greater good, but killing off your only female founding member just seems a little much. Especially when we had a scene of the rest of the original team, all dudes, talking about her.

    - Carol is so overpowered. I mean, I thought she was reasonably really powerful in her solo movie, but this takes that and multiplies it by 11. The only thing that did any real damage to her was the Power Stone. It's going to be interesting to see if they can actually give her believable threats that she won't just steamroll over or temper her powers somehow.

    - How old is Cassie now? She honestly looks college aged, even though I think she's supposed to still be a teenager.

    - Poor Mantis. Rocket is listing off his snapped teammates and he doesn't seem to remember her name.

    - We finally get confirmation that the Ancient One knew exactly what Strange was destined for long before they met, and that he "would be the best of us all," indicating he would eventually surpass and succeed her as Sorcerer Supreme.

    - Pearce was a surprise. I wonder how the team originally got Loki out of there. Pressure from Thor and Hulk when he came out of the stairs?

    - Old school Ant-Man helmet for the win! And Jarvis! That was awesome.

    - Man, thank goodness Maria didn't get to pick Tony's name.

    - This was not Star-Lord's movie. I mean, he gets knocked out in the time travel sequence, gets ridiculed by Rhodey and Nebula, finally reunites with Gamora only to get kicked in the nuts because she has no idea who he is, and then his leadership of the Guardians gets challenged by Thor. Was this supposed to be karma for screwing up the fight against Thanos on Titan?

    - Natasha didn't know who her father was...so I guess the Red Room took her in as a baby? I'm not sure I've read enough Black Widow to be aware of her parental situation.

    - I'm honestly surprised Vision didn't show up in some form in the movie, especially with all the time travel. I mean, he has his own show with Wanda coming out, but it feels weird that in such a big culmination movie where they tried to get so many people back that they didn't try to fit him in somehow. Oh, and I was kind of bummed there was no Quicksilver reference.

    - I'm also honestly surprised they bothered to bring the Black Order back for the big fight sequence given they do even less then they did in Infinity War. Who were the worse elite mooks, the Black Order or Starforce?

    - I knew Pepper was going to be Rescue in this movie but it felt a little much that this woman who, up to this point, has been pretty much just a civilian could just fly in with a new armor we've never seen her use before and immediately fight as well as Tony does. I mean, maybe it was partially the armor, but it just felt a little ridiculous.

    - Is the reason Peter barely quips in these movies because they don't know how to write Spider-Man's quips or just don't think it's believable that a kid his age would quip like Spider-Man? And can he keep his mask on and identity a secret for more then five minutes?

    - Did Peter really need an Uncle Ben moment with Iron Man? I know they don't seem interested in actually bringing Ben up and Iron Man is a major focal point of Peter's MCU character, but it just felt a bit much too me.

    - So what was even the point of Thor becoming king if he's just going to hand off rule over to Valkyrie after barely doing anything with it? Especially when she seems to have as much leadership experience as he does. I mean, this is the same woman Thor struggled to motivate to come back to save Asgard against Hela. Heck, does Asgard even still need a king? It's basically just a rural community or village at this point. They need like a mayor or community organizer, which I guess is what Valkyrie was?

    - I wonder if Steve had any inkling as to who Clint and Natasha met on Vormir. Heck, did Clint and Natasha even realize they were talking to Red Skull? Although Steve would've had to put the Soul Stone back, so he probably would've encountered him, I would think.

    - So are all the Infinity Stones destroyed in the current timeline after what Thanos did? Does that mean the Eye of Agamotto is kaput or will Strange find something else to power it with?

    - I'm surprised they didn't tease what we can expect more of from the MCU. At best we got setup for Guardians 3 and Thor in space, but the rest seemed to be setting up Disney+ shows.

  7. #1657
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    Apologies if this has been covered, but do the time travel rules described in the film mean that Iron Man's snap created an alternative reality where, from GotG on, Thanos and all his armies just vanished? If so, in that timeline, doesn't that mean:
    • Cap and his Rebel Avengers are still underground?
    • Thor, Valkyrie, Loki, Heimdall, and Hulk are looking for a new world to call home?
    • Iron Man, Vision, and War Machine are all that remain of The Official Avengers?
    • Vision and Scarlett Witch are still sneaking about, and getting close to running off together (if they didn't in Scotland already)?
    • The Nova Corps still stand watch over The Power Stone on Xandar, as The Collector does the Reality Stone on Knowhere?
    • Captain Marvel never came back to Earth?

  8. #1658
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Apologies if this has been covered, but do the time travel rules described in the film mean that Iron Man's snap created an alternative reality where, from GotG on, Thanos and all his armies just vanished? If so, in that timeline, doesn't that mean:
    • Cap and his Rebel Avengers are still underground?
    • Thor, Valkyrie, Loki, Heimdall, and Hulk are looking for a new world to call home?
    • Iron Man, Vision, and War Machine are all that remain of The Official Avengers?
    • Vision and Scarlett Witch are still sneaking about, and getting close to running off together (if they didn't in Scotland already)?
    • The Nova Corps still stand watch over The Power Stone on Xandar, as The Collector does the Reality Stone on Knowhere?
    • Captain Marvel never came back to Earth?
    Not that there's an alternate timeline, but that the divergence in the timeline will course-correct once the stones are returned to where they need to be, the universe repairing itself, per the Ancient One. According to Hulk, those divergences are now part of everyone's shared history because that in itself is a subdivision of time travel. There's no other timeline where these events didn't happen, because the present is dependent on those events for existence and the present lives on.

    All those events were, in one way or another, a factor that lead up to Infinity War, but those events have to stay put because without the events of Infinity War, there'd be no means for time travel in Endgame. So they didn't happen separately. Once the stones are returned, it's likely that Thanos and his army reappeared with no memory of Endgame because those events didn't happen to them, so reappearance =/= return. This is also why Present Nebula could kill her past self without any space/time repercussions, whereas in something like Back to the Future, she would've been wiped out.

    (also, don't anyone dare bring up Star Trek in comparison -- they have so many versions of time travel across all their shows that any scenario could work)

  9. #1659
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    - I don't know how I feel about Natasha's sacrifice. I mean, knowing her solo movie is coming out means it will probably stick as much as Gamora's did, and it fit with her character development to see her sacrifice herself for the greater good, but killing off your only female founding member just seems a little much. Especially when we had a scene of the rest of the original team, all dudes, talking about her.
    Yeah, I got mixed feelings there too. I think it was a proper ending for her character arc but the optics of it look really bad. Especially since no time was really dedicated to her, the same way Tony got his funeral.

    - We finally get confirmation that the Ancient One knew exactly what Strange was destined for long before they met, and that he "would be the best of us all," indicating he would eventually surpass and succeed her as Sorcerer Supreme.
    One of the plot holes, I think. In Strange's movie the Ancient One talks about how she can't see the future past her own death, so how does she know what Strange will become? I mean, I suppose it's easy enough to say she divined the information through other means (we do know the Norn pool is out there) but I think the Russo's forgot/ignored this.

    - This was not Star-Lord's movie. I mean, he gets knocked out in the time travel sequence, gets ridiculed by Rhodey and Nebula, finally reunites with Gamora only to get kicked in the nuts because she has no idea who he is, and then his leadership of the Guardians gets challenged by Thor. Was this supposed to be karma for screwing up the fight against Thanos on Titan?
    I think it was karma, yeah.

    - Natasha didn't know who her father was...so I guess the Red Room took her in as a baby? I'm not sure I've read enough Black Widow to be aware of her parental situation.
    That's what the first Avengers implied. Probably not a baby, but as a very, very young girl. That scene where Banner follows the little girl with the "sick dad" right into Widow's interrogation tell us that Nat began in the Red Room at young enough age she very well might not remember her parents. And it's equally possible the Red Room burned those memories out of her too.

    - I'm honestly surprised Vision didn't show up in some form in the movie, especially with all the time travel. I mean, he has his own show with Wanda coming out, but it feels weird that in such a big culmination movie where they tried to get so many people back that they didn't try to fit him in somehow. Oh, and I was kind of bummed there was no Quicksilver reference.
    I hoped to see Quicksilver, but the real letdown here was no Vision and no Coulson. No Coulson! In the movie that's the sendoff for the whole first three Phases of the MCU! They got him back for Captain Marvel but couldn't find the time for a cameo in Endgame? Terrible.

    - I'm also honestly surprised they bothered to bring the Black Order back for the big fight sequence given they do even less then they did in Infinity War. Who were the worse elite mooks, the Black Order or Starforce?
    Oh Starforce definitely. The Black Order at least were able to f**k up several powerful Avengers before getting beat down. Besides, without them in Endgame you don't have that "all of us against all of you" thing happening. People would've bitched about Thanos losing the fight because he didn't have his elite with him.

    - I knew Pepper was going to be Rescue in this movie but it felt a little much that this woman who, up to this point, has been pretty much just a civilian could just fly in with a new armor we've never seen her use before and immediately fight as well as Tony does. I mean, maybe it was partially the armor, but it just felt a little ridiculous.
    I thought that too. I just chalk it up to Tony programming the armor with combat stats. If he was able to analyze and replicate Steve's fighting style in Civil War he can program the Rescue armor for combat. And we don't know what Pepper did during the five year gap....maybe she finally decided to get some training? But yeah, that stuck out like a sore thumb.

    - I wonder if Steve had any inkling as to who Clint and Natasha met on Vormir. Heck, did Clint and Natasha even realize they were talking to Red Skull? Although Steve would've had to put the Soul Stone back, so he probably would've encountered him, I would think.
    I doubt Clint realized who that was. And Steve would've run into him when returning the Soul Stone, which would've been great to see. Alas, just one more missed opportunity in the MCU. I wonder how Steve would've handled that? Would he see Skull's situation as a fitting prison, stuck on a dead planet and unable to even touch the Stone?

    - So are all the Infinity Stones destroyed in the current timeline after what Thanos did? Does that mean the Eye of Agamotto is kaput or will Strange find something else to power it with?
    No idea how this will impact Strange (or his deal with Dormammu....Dormonu.....screw it yknow who I mean). But I think the Stones are still "out there".....just on an atomic level. These are supposed to be foundational building blocks for the universe right? I dont think you could actually destroy them without destroying the universe. And I suppose they could work just as well as dust as they do as stones?

    - I'm surprised they didn't tease what we can expect more of from the MCU. At best we got setup for Guardians 3 and Thor in space, but the rest seemed to be setting up Disney+ shows.
    This was very much meant as an ending. I'm actually surprised they hinted at as much as they did.

    What I wish the film had done was touch on the Sokovia Accords and Wakanda. It appears the Accords are no longer active, since Steve was publicly running a therapy group and Widow was running the Avengers out of the Upstate NY compound and Hulk was being a celebrity superhero (Ross would never let him be active). So what happened? Did Ross get Snapped and everyone decided the Accords were a bad idea? Did the rogue Avengers sign on after failing to stop Thanos? And with both T'Challa and Shuri Snapped away, who ended up on Wakanda's throne? M'Baku, I'd assume? Did he honor and continue T'Challa's "open Wakanda" policy? After just suffering a small succession war and then losing the royal family and half the population.....I really wanted to know what became of the place.
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  10. #1660
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Tony’s had suits capable of “insta kill mode” since the mark 3 and capable of analyzing and replicating combat maneuvers since Mark 46. I find it pretty easy to believe Pepper’s AI was doing most of the work during the fight.

  11. #1661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yeah, I got mixed feelings there too. I think it was a proper ending for [Nat's]character arc but the optics of it look really bad. Especially since no time was really dedicated to her, the same way Tony got his funeral.
    I agree with the part about the funeral. The angry guys by the lake fall a little short. That said, it was the right move for three reasons:
    • Everybody just knew it was gonna be Hawkeye that got whacked at the well. Both because it, would dramatically deny him a happy ending, and with all the vigilante-revenge murder he'd done, you just figured there was karma waiting. For those reasons, his death would been both less powerful, and less meaningful.
    • Black Widow had been seeking redemption since her second appearance, and nothing in her life, no mater how noble, had offered it to her. This was her wiping all the red from her ledger, and then some.
    • Women have heroically sacrificed themselves for what they love, or just because it had to be done, without adequate recognition, for all of history. Making BW's death somewhat meta.
    .
    All told, this was one where optics needed to yield to story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    One of the plot holes, I think. In Strange's movie the Ancient One talks about how she can't see the future past her own death, so how does she know what Strange will become? I mean, I suppose it's easy enough to say she divined the information through other means (we do know the Norn pool is out there) but I think the Russo's forgot/ignored this.
    Even to the point of her death, the Time Stone may have let The Ancient One realize what Strange would be. That's before considering what else her order may have known. Her talk with Hulk made it clear he'd earned the Eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I hoped to see Quicksilver, but the real letdown here was no Vision and no Coulson. No Coulson! In the movie that's the sendoff for the whole first three Phases of the MCU! They got him back for Captain Marvel but couldn't find the time for a cameo in Endgame? Terrible.
    Yeah, those sucked. Still, wasn't Coulson dead at this point (haven't watched latest season)? As for Quicksilver, I write that off to Disney/Fox legal spaghetti. For Vision, I can't see how they worked that in; still hate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I thought that too. I just chalk it up to Tony programming the armor with combat stats. If he was able to analyze and replicate Steve's fighting style in Civil War he can program the Rescue armor for combat. And we don't know what Pepper did during the five year gap....maybe she finally decided to get some training? But yeah, that stuck out like a sore thumb.
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I doubt Clint realized who that was. And Steve would've run into him when returning the Soul Stone, which would've been great to see. Alas, just one more missed opportunity in the MCU. I wonder how Steve would've handled that? Would he see Skull's situation as a fitting prison, stuck on a dead planet and unable to even touch the Stone?
    This would make a wonderful short. In the end, I could see Cap deciding (simultaneously):
    • The Skull got what he deserved.
    • Saving him is not the mission.
    • That in some ways, he's been trapped in The Skull's fate too, and no one deserves that, perhaps motivating his choice to "Go get some of that life..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    No idea how this will impact Strange (or his deal with Dormammu....Dormonu.....screw it yknow who I mean). But I think the Stones are still "out there".....just on an atomic level. These are supposed to be foundational building blocks for the universe right? I dont think you could actually destroy them without destroying the universe. And I suppose they could work just as well as dust as they do as stones?
    Should be a non-issue. The Time Stone gets returned for Strange's use, and he used it.to blackmail a deal from Dormammu. In the comics, at least, Dormammu was bound by his word. He'd weasle around its intent, but observe the letter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    What I wish the film had done was touch on the Sokovia Accords and Wakanda. It appears the Accords are no longer active, since Steve was publicly running a therapy group and Widow was running the Avengers out of the Upstate NY compound and Hulk was being a celebrity superhero (Ross would never let him be active). So what happened? Did Ross get Snapped and everyone decided the Accords were a bad idea? Did the rogue Avengers sign on after failing to stop Thanos? And with both T'Challa and Shuri Snapped away, who ended up on Wakanda's throne? M'Baku, I'd assume? Did he honor and continue T'Challa's "open Wakanda" policy? After just suffering a small succession war and then losing the royal family and half the population.....I really wanted to know what became of the place.
    Half humanity turned into laundry lint. I'm guessing Ross and his bosses had bigger fish to fry. As for Wakanda, I'm guessing Okoye took a grip on things, given her prominence in the film, probably with an assist from The Queen Mother (as we didn't see her get dusted).
    Last edited by DrNewGod; 08-05-2019 at 04:35 PM.

  12. #1662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Not that there's an alternate timeline, but that the divergence in the timeline will course-correct once the stones are returned to where they need to be, the universe repairing itself, per the Ancient One. According to Hulk, those divergences are now part of everyone's shared history because that in itself is a subdivision of time travel. There's no other timeline where these events didn't happen, because the present is dependent on those events for existence and the present lives on.

    All those events were, in one way or another, a factor that lead up to Infinity War, but those events have to stay put because without the events of Infinity War, there'd be no means for time travel in Endgame. So they didn't happen separately. Once the stones are returned, it's likely that Thanos and his army reappeared with no memory of Endgame because those events didn't happen to them, so reappearance =/= return. This is also why Present Nebula could kill her past self without any space/time repercussions, whereas in something like Back to the Future, she would've been wiped out.

    (also, don't anyone dare bring up Star Trek in comparison -- they have so many versions of time travel across all their shows that any scenario could work)
    How did I know the answer would give me a brain bleed?

  13. #1663
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    But I think the Stones are still "out there".....just on an atomic level. These are supposed to be foundational building blocks for the universe right? I dont think you could actually destroy them without destroying the universe. And I suppose they could work just as well as dust as they do as stones?
    The idea that the stones can be reduced to atom and still be what they were stretches credulity even for a Marvel film, just as water could be reduced to atoms and still be water.

    I'd rather think that the nature of the universe is, maybe, just a bit more complicated than Thanos or The Ancient One knew.
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  14. #1664
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    One of the things I most love about this film is that one of the last scenes is Happy and Morgan sitting together. In a meta sense, the (maybe second-most important) architect of the franchise, and the legacy of that work. Beautiful.

  15. #1665
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    One of the things I most love about this film is that one of the last scenes is Happy and Morgan sitting together. In a meta sense, the (maybe second-most important) architect of the franchise, and the legacy of that work. Beautiful.
    That scene was the one that brought on the water works in full.

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