Avengers: Endgame Spoilers

[JKtheMac]

The five-year time jump is problematic for everyone in that universe and character interactions going forward, best for future films to just ignore it honestly. That way it won't confuse audiences

It’s only a problem if the script writers make it a problem. Remember this script was probably written years ago. It’s not like they suddenly changed the way things needed to be written. They just changed our perceptions of them, that’s all.

Look at it this way. They now have five years to insert new backstory for the F4 or X-Men if they want to. It could have been a plan to give them flexibility rather than boxing them in.

[JKtheMac]

This was a wonderful film and such a satisfying conclusion to the first decade of the MCU. They really stuck the landing.

--As far as Loki goes, I agree that he branched out and created an alternate reality when he escaped, unless we assume Cap chased him down and put him back in his place moments later.

--I do wonder if Steve created an alternate reality when he married Peggy, or if she was always married to him and kept this secret so as not to alter her past (his future). But that would make things kind of messy, since it would be hard for Steve not to share inside info on HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD. So most likely another branch created.

--There is now an alternate reality that branches out in 2014 (I think?) where Thanos departs for the future. In this reality, the Avengers wouldn't form (or at least, not under the same circumstances), Thanos never attacks Earth, and Tony Stark is presumably still alive. So there's room now to bring Stark and Natasha back for future appearances as their alternate reality selves.

--I think the setup for GOTG3 is that 'our' Gamora is indeed dead, and it's up in the air whether the alternate reality Gamora will fall in love with Quill as her other self once did. Now that Thor's in the Guardians, there's even a potential love triangle.

--Man, the kid from IM3 really looked like Rick Jones now, right down to the haircut.

It is best to think of this movie as creating a number of potential branches that got closed and will no longer happen. If you start to look for branches everywhere you will mislead yourself. We are left with a single but changed timeline altered by Steve and Loki, but overall course corrected by the Infinity Stones. Some things will be different and they will be explained in the new movies and the TV shows.

Fandom loves to second guess everything, but we don’t have access to the secrets, and we don’t really want to know. Let’s enjoy their explanations when they arise.

[MindofShadow]

This was a wonderful film and such a satisfying conclusion to the first decade of the MCU. They really stuck the landing.

--As far as Loki goes, I agree that he branched out and created an alternate reality when he escaped, unless we assume Cap chased him down and put him back in his place moments later.

--I do wonder if Steve created an alternate reality when he married Peggy, or if she was always married to him and kept this secret so as not to alter her past (his future). But that would make things kind of messy, since it would be hard for Steve not to share inside info on HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD. So most likely another branch created.

I *think* it is implied he was the secret husband.

I don't see it being messy... he knows he can't do stuff like that. But, at the same time, he was done with the super hero stuff. I think he was at peace with that, he was done with war. He was ready for the quiet life. Plus, he "knows" it ends up being OK in the end.

--There is now an alternate reality that branches out in 2014 (I think?) where Thanos departs for the future.

That loop hurts my brain a good amount

[David Walton]

I was thinking of this too. Very clearly a reference IMO. I imagine there are so many Easter Eggs in this thing. Spotted a few in passing but no way I spotted the majority of them.

Yeah, I need to watch a second time to see if I pick up on anything else. There's also that brief moment in the Battle of New York where Hulk is wearing the shirt from the 'merged Hulk' era in the Peter David run.

Russo Brothers have said they'd come back to direct SECRET WARS if it ever happens. I suspect it will be the culmination of the next three phases of the MCU. They'll build to it with the introduction of the X-Men, the Fantastic Four and Dr. Doom.

Speaking of Hulk, I really hope Marvel can get the distribution rights back and make a solo Hulk film. There's so many things to explore. I half-thought the gamma exposure from the Infinity Stones would turn him into Joe Fixit.

His current phase is most comparable to the middle part of Bill Mantlo's run, when Hulk had Banner's brain and was accepted as a hero (having even received a presidential pardon for past crimes). I'd really, really love to see them build up to the 'merged' Hulk (often called "Professor Hulk," though I think PAD didn't like that name for him).

[MindofShadow]

It is best to think of this movie as creating a number of potential branches that got closed and will no longer happen. If you start to look for branches everywhere you will mislead yourself. We are left with a single but changed timeline altered by Steve and Loki, but overall course corrected by the Infinity Stones. Some things will be different and they will be explained in the new movies and the TV shows.

Fandom loves to second guess everything, but we don’t have access to the secrets, and we don’t really want to know. Let’s enjoy their explanations when they arise.

Agreed for 99% of it.

The conversation with TAO clearly points out the role of the stones and how they will correct whta happens if put back.

The Thanos/Nebula loop still hurts by brain but I may have missed the easy explanaiton

[David Walton]

I *think* it is implied he was the secret husband.

Maybe? They kept Agent Carter's future husband ambiguous, though I don't know if it was intentional or not. If she'd gotten another season it might have been different.

At any rate, I think it works either way until the MCU officially says otherwise.

I don't see it being messy... he knows he can't do stuff like that. But, at the same time, he was done with the super hero stuff. I think he was at peace with that, he was done with war. He was ready for the quiet life. Plus, he "knows" it ends up being OK in the end.

I buy into that.

That loop hurts my brain a good amount

I love it. I'm a huge fan of doppelgangers, be they clones or alternate realities. I think we'll see the idea explored more fully in GOTG3, where the branched Gamora's path might go very differently than 'our' Gamora.

[Mutant 77]

Maybe? They kept Agent Carter's future husband ambiguous, though I don't know if it was intentional or not. If she'd gotten another season it might have been different.

No.

Having Captain America in the past makes the main MCU timeline "branch" again. He assumed a different identity, spent a normal life and married Peggy. Let's call this alternate timeline: "PEGGY TIMELINE". In the Peggy Timeline, there was "a" Captain America buried in the ice and being awoken in 2012 as well. But it's not the MCU Captain America. It's the PEGGY TIMELINE Captain America.

[David Walton]

It is best to think of this movie as creating a number of potential branches that got closed and will no longer happen. If you start to look for branches everywhere you will mislead yourself. We are left with a single but changed timeline altered by Steve and Loki, but overall course corrected by the Infinity Stones. Some things will be different and they will be explained in the new movies and the TV shows.

Fandom loves to second guess everything, but we don’t have access to the secrets, and we don’t really want to know. Let’s enjoy their explanations when they arise.

Alternate realities are fun. I do think the branches are there, the most obvious being Gamora. You can't argue all the realities are still intact because Nebula killed her younger self and Thanos got dusted after time-jumping. There's no possibility of the universe they came from folding back into the timeline we know. Same seems true of Loki escaping custody, unless Cap tracked him down and returned him. But it seems like too much had already changed.

[JKtheMac]

Alternate realities are fun. I do think the branches are there, the most obvious being Gamora. You can't argue all the realities are still intact because Nebula killed her younger self and Thanos got dusted after time-jumping. There's no possibility of the universe they came from folding back into the timeline we know. Same seems true of Loki escaping custody, unless Cap tracked him down and returned him. But it seems like too much had already changed.

They don’t fold back they get dusted. The Ancient One explains this visually. Once the stones were replaced that Timeline died. Once all of the stones were replaced there were no more branches at all. The battle still happens, the characters still end up in the main timeline for that, but their original branching timeline now never really existed.

When The Ancient One shows this to Banner she puts a stone back and the branch turned to the same ash as the characters that were dusted.

[MindofShadow]

Cap going back in time for "however long he needs" can be used to solve most of the timeline shenanigans/branches, including, Loki, with ease if they want. Cap could have been bouncing around time trying ot fix the stone issues for years (years for him). Then the stones would have self corrected once back in their proper places.


There is also a large, unknown gap of what Cap was doing when he went back with peggy until he came out of the ice. It is easy to say "he let all this bad stuff happened!" but their could have been lots of stuff he stopped as well, on the download. Peggy may have been stopping some major hydra plots (world ending kind like Insight) thanks to steve's knowledge of the situation.

There is a LOT of "off panel" time in the MCU where lots of stuf could have happened

[MindofShadow]

They don’t fold back they get dusted. The Ancient One explains this visually. Once the stones were replaced that Timeline died. Once all of the stones were replaced there were no more branches at all.

Did you explain the thanos loop anywhere i may have missed?

[David Walton]

They don’t fold back they get dusted. The Ancient One explains this visually. Once the stones were replaced that Timeline died. Once all of the stones were replaced there were no more branches at all. The battle still happens, the characters still end up in the main timeline for that, but their original branching timeline now never really existed.

When The Ancient One shows this to Banner she puts a stone back and the branch turned to the same ash as the characters that were dusted.

But Thanos not being folded back into the timeline from which he came creates another 'branch.' He died in an alternate future, before he'd ever accomplished his goals in the timeline from which he originated. Meaning there's now a universe where the Avengers, if they assembled at all, did so under different circumstances, with Loki no longer being recruited by Thanos, and IW never occurring.

[Iron_Legion87]

But Thanos not being folded back into the timeline from which he came creates another 'branch.' He died in an alternate future, before he'd ever accomplished his goals in the timeline from which he originated. Meaning there's now a universe where the Avengers, if they assembled at all, did so under different circumstances, with Loki no longer being recruited by Thanos, and IW never occurring.

Yea they basically just set up the MCU multiverse here. The main MCU events that we know are the 616 version and anything else is the ultimate universe earth 1610 etc.

[JKtheMac]

Did you explain the thanos loop anywhere i may have missed?

Not sure what needs explaining. If it’s the complaint about how Thanos managed to jump through time without the Pym Particles we can assume Nebula used the new ones that Tony brought back. They grabbed four and used two. There may even have been a visual of this somewhere but my memory fails me. Seeing it again over the weekend. If not Nebula armed with Thanos’ knowledge is just much better at this than Tony and Banner. Thanos is totally unphased by time travel he probably knows a lot of stuff.

[Iron_Legion87]

Also, it seems no avenger cares about Vision lol. I thought he would come back without the mind stone of course. He would have been useful in the final fight. But yea, it’s strange he isn’t mentioned at all in the movie. Wanda just tells Thanos he took everything from her but that’s about it. Weird considering they Wanda and Vision have their own shoe on Disney plus seemingly set in the 1950’s for some reason....