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  1. #1756
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    I suspect that like the Asgardians, Thanos always knew that the time stone was on earth, he just wasn't ready to make a move until his forces established a beach head.

    Thanos didn't require a burst of energy to find the stones. The stones were connected, and with the gauntlet, he used the power stone to find the space stone, then reality, etc.

  2. #1757
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Then why couldn't he track the soul stone the same way? If he were able to locate the other stones with pinpoint accuracy, and he was able to use the stones to find the stones, he should've been able to find the soul stone the same way. Nothing in the film says that stone has any special attributes along these lines, just that it requires a sacrifice to get.

    Perhaps you're right and he didn't want to over-reach in Avengers 1. Perhaps he knew the time stone was there and didn't tell Loki or the Chitari and planned on taking it after Loki had his war. But I feel like if the guy knew, he wouldn't have let it slide. That's half the stones all in one place, on a little mudball planet with (as far as anyone knew) minimal defenses. What reason did he have to hold back? Obviously he didn't really trust Loki, but when he's already trusting Loki to handle two stones why not go for the one that could un-do all that effort? And if he needed the stones to track the stones, why give up the only one he had to Loki? Wouldn't that have removed his ability to find them?

    And in Endgame, the Avengers spend weeks scanning space looking for Thanos, but only find him once he's used the gauntlet again. Obviously Thanos has much more advanced tech but I suspect the basic principal is the same; before you can follow the energy you need a big enough signature to see.
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  3. #1758
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Good point. Until I saw the deleted scenes, I thought Gamorra got Dusted with Thanos.
    Since she'd already defected, I assumed that the Stones didn't count her as one of Thanos's henchwomen. It also would've been narratively odd to tease that future storyline of Peter and co. trying to find her if she was supposed to be dead again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Quick question before I forget; do we see how Proxima Midnight dies? Corvus gets killed by Okoye in what should have been a bigger scene. Ebony Maw gets Snapped, we see him die as Thanos watches his forces atomize. And Black Dwarf gets stomped on by Ant-Man. But I haven't caught Midnight's death.
    She's dusted at the end. It's hard to see, but in the long shot of the army disintegrating, you can see her with the fallen lieutenant she was married to (according to behind the scenes info).
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  4. #1759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    ...Oh, as for Mordo, he said the bill always come due. Now, we know Thanos could track the stones, but it seems he needed them to unleash a powerful blast first so his sensors could identify them. That's why he could pinpoint the space and mind stone's locations; he already knew their signatures, but couldn't find the soul stone (no one had used it, so there's no energy to identify and track). So, presumably if Thanos had known the time stone was a few blocks away in Avengers 1, he'd have made a much more concentrated effort to get it, right? We see TAO defending the Sanctum in Endgame, but it seems to just be from random chaos, the Chitari aren't focused on her. So my question is this; when Strange uses the time stone to stop Dormammu, is *that* the powerful burst of energy Thanos needed to locate the stone? I tell you what, if Thanos was able to find the time stone because of Strange and Dormammu, then Mordo really is right; that bill came due and it cost everyone a whole damn lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I suspect that like the Asgardians, Thanos always knew that the time stone was on earth, he just wasn't ready to make a move until his forces established a beach head.

    Thanos didn't require a burst of energy to find the stones. The stones were connected, and with the gauntlet, he used the power stone to find the space stone, then reality, etc.
    I can buy The Cool Thatguy's answer, but I got to say I like Ascended's take on this. If for no other reason, it gives Mordo a bucket-fulla "I told you so!" for future appearances.

  5. #1760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Then why couldn't he track the soul stone the same way? If he were able to locate the other stones with pinpoint accuracy, and he was able to use the stones to find the stones, he should've been able to find the soul stone the same way. Nothing in the film says that stone has any special attributes along these lines, just that it requires a sacrifice to get.

    Perhaps you're right and he didn't want to over-reach in Avengers 1. Perhaps he knew the time stone was there and didn't tell Loki or the Chitari and planned on taking it after Loki had his war. But I feel like if the guy knew, he wouldn't have let it slide. That's half the stones all in one place, on a little mudball planet with (as far as anyone knew) minimal defenses. What reason did he have to hold back? Obviously he didn't really trust Loki, but when he's already trusting Loki to handle two stones why not go for the one that could un-do all that effort? And if he needed the stones to track the stones, why give up the only one he had to Loki? Wouldn't that have removed his ability to find them?

    And in Endgame, the Avengers spend weeks scanning space looking for Thanos, but only find him once he's used the gauntlet again. Obviously Thanos has much more advanced tech but I suspect the basic principal is the same; before you can follow the energy you need a big enough signature to see.
    Err, the Red Skull himself says that the soul stone is special among the infinity stones. Thanos couldn't sense it, didn't even know where it was until Gamora told him.

    A big burst of energy wasn't required to find the stones. Thanos didn't need that to find the power stone. And Thanos wouldn't have needed to tell Loki, as 1) Thanos could influence Loki via the mind gem and 2) Loki likely already knew. I don't think it was a coincidence that Hulk was sent to the very same people who were responsible for protecting the time stone. Asgard seemed especially aware of the threat posed by the stones.

  6. #1761
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Err, the Red Skull himself says that the soul stone is special among the infinity stones. Thanos couldn't sense it, didn't even know where it was until Gamora told him.
    He says it's special in regards to it needing a sacrifice to obtain, not about the effort of finding it.

    Your interpretation could be right of course, there's not enough on the screen to really draw concrete conclusions (and as my old english lit professor said, the evidence is on the page). But I find it hard to imagine that Thanos wouldn't have tried to take the time stone, or any of the others, when he had the opportunity. If he can find them all, easily, right now, why wait? I think all the actions Thanos takes reinforces that he can't locate them whenever he wants, and his actions only make sense if he's biding his time until they all reveal themselves. But that's just me, obviously.

    A big burst of energy wasn't required to find the stones.
    With Thanos we don't know, it's never said how good his tech is. But the Avengers needed a power discharge to find them, and they had Rocket and Nebula helping so they weren't limited to MCU earth's technology (which is still pretty decent).

    Thanos didn't need that to find the power stone.
    Of course not, he already knew it was on Xandar. Ronan *told* him where he was going. And where would the Nova Corps keep the stone, except on Xandar, in the center of their power?

    And Thanos wouldn't have needed to tell Loki, as 1) Thanos could influence Loki via the mind gem and 2) Loki likely already knew.
    He wouldn't have told Loki anything anyway. Whether Loki knew he was dealing with the stones.....I dunno. I think Loki knows what the stones are but I'm not sure if he realized he was dealing with them. If he had known.....Thanos was obviously influencing him with the mind stone, but did that influence go deep enough to prevent Loki from taking the stones for himself and running? I'm not sure about that, that'd be totally suppressing a pretty major urge and Loki appeared to be "influenced" more than "blindly loyal" like Hawkeye and Selvig were.

    I don't think it was a coincidence that Hulk was sent to the very same people who were responsible for protecting the time stone. Asgard seemed especially aware of the threat posed by the stones.
    Asgard certainly is aware of the stones (Odin obviously knew a ton about them), but there doesn't appear to be a deep knowledge of them among anyone else. Thor seems to have only a vague, passing knowledge of them and while Loki would be more educated and informed, Odin has a habit of covering things up until they're forgotten. Everyone knew the Tesseract was a powerful weapon in the vault....but did they know it housed a stone?

    And no, I don't think it was a coincidence Hulk was sent to Strange. But who sent him there? The guy who sees everything.
    Last edited by Ascended; 08-24-2019 at 08:36 PM.
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  7. #1762
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    Sorry for two long posts in a row.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I can buy The Cool Thatguy's answer, but I got to say I like Ascended's take on this. If for no other reason, it gives Mordo a bucket-fulla "I told you so!" for future appearances.
    Thanks. Well, like I said, I don't think Thanos' actions make any sense if he can locate them easily. Even if The Cool Thatguy's theory is right (and this is art and its subjective and there's nothing concrete said in the films so there's no wrong answer as long as it fits what *is* on screen), if Thanos could find five of the six whenever he wanted, what kept him from grabbing those while he's looking for the soul stone? He's been looking for them for at least two decades and those other stones would've made the search for the soul stone a whole lot easier. Why would he leave them floating around the cosmos that long if he didn't have to? No, I think Thanos couldn't just locate them whenever he wanted. I think that his plan was to locate all of them, because that's the hard part, then move on them all at once. If he grabs them here and there, as he finds them, that gives other stonekeepers the chance to go even deeper into hiding, making it more difficult to find them. But a quick grab for all of them all at once means he catches everyone off guard.

    So he had the mind stone from the start. We never learn how or where or when he got it.

    He learns where the space stone is from Loki. Loki likely learned the Tesseract was on earth (or at least in SHIELD custody) while Thor is being held by SHIELD (we see Loki poking around the Mjolnir site, and Loki's the kinda person who'd snoop and dig through mainframes). This is an opportunity; Thanos has found a stone before anyone else, so he can grab it without alerting other interested parties and potentially scattering the other stonekeepers. But this is a limited window; sooner or later humans will trigger a powerful enough discharge for people to locate. But Thanos can't go himself; he's a well known figure and people pay attention to his movements. Earth is overpopulated so it's a good target for culling, but it's on the galactic rim and unimportant; why would Thanos go to such a insignificant world himself? But if he sends a new recruit like Loki? It looks like a training exercise.

    He gives the mind stone, which Thanos *can* track because he's already got its energy signature, to Loki because it's easier to take a stone if you have a stone (and this may help maintain the influence on Loki too, it's unclear). Loki triggers a small worm hole, probably not big enough for everyone in space to detect, but Thanos (since his armies are right at the door) gets a sample of the energy signature and can now track it. Loki loses and the stone ends up on Asgard, but Thanos can track it now, solving the real problem. On Asgard the stone is safe; not very many people can get past the Asgardians, so Thanos is content to leave it where it is.

    Then rumors are put together revealing the location of the power stone. Other people are looking for the stones so Thanos has to move on it. He sends Ronan, possibly because he's so egotistical he thinks a retrieval mission is beneath him, possibly as a (failed) attempt to hide his movements. Either way, Ronan ends up dead and the stone ends up on Xandar. Odds are the stone didn't discharge enough energy for Thanos to get a trace, but Thanos can leave it where it is without fear of the Nova trying to move it; it's already as safe as they can make it and no one else is capable of getting past Xandar's security.

    The Aether returns, and attempting to eat nine planets is more than enough for Thanos to get an energy signature. And it ending up with the Collector is likely a open secret, so Thanos would know where it is regardless. The Collector has maintained his collection in a lawless no-man's-land so his security has to be solid. Once again, the stone is safe enough. (going back to earlier; if Thanos could find any stone at will, he'd have taken this one when everyone thought it was an Asgardian fairy tale) This is the stone most likely to be moved, but Thanos can track it so it's not a concern.

    Then the mind stone ends up in the Vision....but Thanos has always been able to track that one, and since almost no one knows it's on earth it's safe enough. But by this point most of the stones are appearing (some for the first time in centuries) so Thanos forces the dwarves to built the gauntlet (I believe the "fake" in Odin's vault was a "proof of concept" design the dwarves had made much earlier).

    Nebula tries to kill Thanos and by accessing her memory files Thanos learns that Gamora has the soul stone's location. And Thanos has the bait he needs to get Gamora. The stone is safe; Gamora isn't going to share that knowledge and she's capable of taking care of herself and not getting killed.

    Thanos has no idea where the time stone is until Strange uses it to stop Dormammu. Otherwise he'd have invested more heavily in the Battle of New York. Once again a stone is on that annoying, unruly planet. And if Thanos can find that stone now, so can others. Earth, Thanos has to admit, is fairly capable of protecting itself so it should be fairly safe, and Thanos can track it regardless, but by this point Thanos is getting ready to pull the trigger on Gamora and make his move.

    Then Asgard is destroyed and space stone starts to move. It still hasn't generated enough energy for anyone else to notice but refugee Asgardians are likely to find an excuse to use it. So Thanos strikes; hitting the biggest potential source of resistance first and taking down the Nova before anyone knows he's moving. Then he grabs the most tactically important stone from Asgard's refugees; they're a weak target but will rabbit once word reaches them, so they have to be next. From there he can split his forces, hit earth all at once with the Black Order and use the Aether to summon Gamora for soul.
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  8. #1763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    He says it's special in regards to it needing a sacrifice to obtain, not about the effort of finding it.
    Thanos could sense where all the stones were, except for the soul stone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Your interpretation could be right of course, there's not enough on the screen to really draw concrete conclusions (and as my old english lit professor said, the evidence is on the page). But I find it hard to imagine that Thanos wouldn't have tried to take the time stone, or any of the others, when he had the opportunity. If he can find them all, easily, right now, why wait? I think all the actions Thanos takes reinforces that he can't locate them whenever he wants, and his actions only make sense if he's biding his time until they all reveal themselves. But that's just me, obviously.
    Actually, there's plenty of evidence that no energy was required to find the infinity stones, but instead Thanos, using the gauntlet and power stone, found them that way instead.

    They found the space gem while moving through space, and having never been used. The last time the reality stone was used was on earth, and Thanos found it effortlessly on Nowhere. And he teleported blind to within a few yards of both the time stone and mind stone during Infinity War.

    More than that, the mind gem itself warned Vision that Thanos was coming, so they're clearly connected. And Thanos used that connection to acquire them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    With Thanos we don't know, it's never said how good his tech is. But the Avengers needed a power discharge to find them, and they had Rocket and Nebula helping so they weren't limited to MCU earth's technology (which is still pretty decent).
    They needed a discharge to find the *gauntlet*, not an individual stone. And they found him first because for two reasons. 1) They knew Thanos was responsible for the snap, and the rest of the galaxy did not. Who would have told the Kree or Xandar, after all? Don't think they'd believe just Rocket. 2) the snap happened in Wakanda, so it was caught on countless scanners. So they knew what to look for

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Of course not, he already knew it was on Xandar. Ronan *told* him where he was going. And where would the Nova Corps keep the stone, except on Xandar, in the center of their power?
    Thanos found the stone, and sent Ronan to acquire it, on Morrag first, remember? Star Lord got to it before them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Asgard certainly is aware of the stones (Odin obviously knew a ton about them), but there doesn't appear to be a deep knowledge of them among anyone else. Thor seems to have only a vague, passing knowledge of them and while Loki would be more educated and informed, Odin has a habit of covering things up until they're forgotten. Everyone knew the Tesseract was a powerful weapon in the vault....but did they know it housed a stone?
    I'm sure his sons, his heir (Thor) and his spare (Loki) knew enough. The tesseract was designed to utilize the stone, after all

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    And no, I don't think it was a coincidence Hulk was sent to Strange. But who sent him there? The guy who sees everything.
    The guy who sees everything, and is loyal to the throne. So yeah, I'm sure he told Odin, if Odin didn't already know.

    I mean, they had a fake gauntlet in their trophy room

  9. #1764
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Actually, there's plenty of evidence that no energy was required to find the infinity stones, but instead Thanos, using the gauntlet and power stone, found them that way instead.

    They found the space gem while moving through space, and having never been used. The last time the reality stone was used was on earth, and Thanos found it effortlessly on Nowhere. And he teleported blind to within a few yards of both the time stone and mind stone during Infinity War.

    More than that, the mind gem itself warned Vision that Thanos was coming, so they're clearly connected. And Thanos used that connection to acquire them.
    Hey man, you read into things the way you like, but I just don't agree. I dont think anything in the films supports the idea that Thanos always knew where they were. If he can find five of them easily, he has no reason to wait. He doesn't need to spend decades waiting for the right moment, he can take them immediately and then use them to speed his search for soul along. The whole reason he has to wait is because he *cant* find them at his whim and has to wait for each to reveal itself, then grab them before anyone else can take them further into hiding.

    Gamora talks about how Thanos spent twenty years (minimum) looking for the stones. In Endgame Nebula2014 and Gamora2014 talk about how, after so long, Thanos has finally located a stone (on Morag). Not to mention the Black Order were able to track the stones on earth without Thanos' aid (Thanos not knowing the Maw had died indicates there was little to no communication between the Order and their boss). None of this sounds like Thanos had an easy location on them to me. Through all these films the subplot has been Thanos' search for the stones, it hasn't been "Thanos waiting to take stuff he's already found."

    And Thanos *did* find the space stone while it was moving.....after getting a trace on it in Avengers 1. Finding the stone on Knowhere isn't a challenge either, the fact the Collector had it is likely an open secret and Thanos would've gotten an energy trace when Malekith (I'm spelling that wrong right?) tried to eat the universe. And Thanos teleported to within a few yards of the other two stones because he already had that trace.

    You're right that Thanos did seem to have some kind of connection to the mind stone, or at the very least the stone had some sort of awareness of its own. We don't know how long Thanos had that one, and given it's the mind stone I can totally believe that some kind of...bond...was formed. But again, he had that stone long enough to pick up a trace, so his being able to find it is a given. No way he'd give up the only stone he has to someone he barely knows if he cant find it again, and at the time he didn't have the gauntlet so if that's how you think he found them I'm not sure what Thanos' reasoning would be for giving such a powerful weapon to Loki.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on this my man.

    And I'm sure Odin knew more about the stones than he said. How much he knew, well, we can't be sure. He knew the Aether was more than a fairy tale, and I'd be surprised if he didn't know about the Tesseract's hiding place on earth considering it was Asgard who put it there. And Thor's never been portrayed as being the best student so perhaps his lack of knowledge is totally on him.....but I wouldn't be surprised if this was information Odin didn't plan to share until his heir had actually taken the throne. Yknow how Presidents have that journal you only get to read once you're President? I imagine Odin might've treated the stones in a similar manner; he probably knew more than he let on and would only share that once Thor was on the throne.
    Last edited by Ascended; 08-25-2019 at 02:32 PM.
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  10. #1765
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Side note if he hadn't already lost an eye. Would have been cool in Thor 4 he went and sacrafice an eyes to Mimirs well to gain the wisdom of the all-Father. Which then could lead to him warning the heroes of Marvel about what the next big threat is. Maybe leave the other stuff out though, iono if anyone wants to watch Thor hang himself from a tree or none of that.

  11. #1766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Side note if he hadn't already lost an eye. Would have been cool in Thor 4 he went and sacrafice an eyes to Mimirs well to gain the wisdom of the all-Father. Which then could lead to him warning the heroes of Marvel about what the next big threat is. Maybe leave the other stuff out though, iono if anyone wants to watch Thor hang himself from a tree or none of that.
    He's still got one real eye left he could give up if you want mutilation for knowledge. Or, he does have a hand that he could spare.

  12. #1767
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    He's still got one real eye left he could give up if you want mutilation for knowledge. Or, he does have a hand that he could spare.
    Not so much the mutilation. But We dont know what Odin knew or how powerful he was. If we want Thor to all of A sudden be gifted with this vast Knowledge that maybe MCU Odin had or didnt have. you can follow the comics and have him sacrafice his eye. But no I don think losing another eye or a hand is a good idea. Hes already carefully tittering on the edge of Parody.

    Probaly wouldnt fit anyway didnt MCU Odin say he lost his eye battling Frost Giants long ago?

  13. #1768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    ...didnt MCU Odin say he lost his eye battling Frost Giants long ago?
    I don't know if it was ever explicitly addressed, but in Thor, we see Odin get smacked in the face by an iceball from Laufey, and then later standing over Laufey, we see he's got a hole in his eye. Now, it looks to me like that was a bit of problematic editing, because the face-smack was presented as one battle, on Earth, and other shot was presented as a later battle, on Jotenheim. Seems like the photography was intended to show them as different phases of the same battle.

    But all that to say, yeah, MCU Odin apparently lost his eye in the throwdown with The Frost Giants.

  14. #1769
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I don't know if it was ever explicitly addressed, but in Thor, we see Odin get smacked in the face by an iceball from Laufey, and then later standing over Laufey, we see he's got a hole in his eye. Now, it looks to me like that was a bit of problematic editing, because the face-smack was presented as one battle, on Earth, and other shot was presented as a later battle, on Jotenheim. Seems like the photography was intended to show them as different phases of the same battle.

    But all that to say, yeah, MCU Odin apparently lost his eye in the throwdown with The Frost Giants.
    So yea without it being a step Thor takes too mirrior what his father did.. yea I dont see the point. And I like Thors new direction and becoming Odin level wise all of a sudden might not gel with that.

  15. #1770
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    There's a lot of stuff the Russo's said they wished was on the blu-ray. They focused on actual cut scenes, as in, scenes they showed to test audiences.

    I still everyone taking a knee should've been in the whole time!
    all of the YES
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