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  1. #226
    Mighty Member Vworp Vworp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    I thought it was a great touch at Tony's funeral to have Harley Keener present -- the next generation Iron Man perhaps?
    Ah, that's who that was! Well yes then, that's one more bit of awesome.
    "The rules of regeneration are known!"

    "Sorry, what did you say? Did you mention the rules? Now, listen. A bit of advice: tell me the truth if you think you know it,
    lay down the law if you're feeling brave, but never ever tell me the rules!!"

  2. #227
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    What happen to StarLord?
    Him the guardians and Thor went looking for Gamora

  3. #228
    Mighty Member Vworp Vworp's Avatar
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    OK, so the timey wimey stuff is very much "We're doing it this way, even though it doesn't really make any sense". But they come out and say that pretty much right from the outset, so fair enough.

    The rest of it though? Basically perfect. Despite having seen Captain Marvel five times over the last month, I was cool with Carol's limited appearances. Too much might have seemed like putting to new a character front and centre of a movie that had to focus on either the main Avengers or those with immediate ties to Thanos. The latter point meaning Nebula's increased role was very welcome indeed. Also, fun fact - That's now the third time Karen Gillan has played past/future versions of herself in something. Although given her earlier gig, that was always an occupational hazard!

    Endgame probably isn't my absolute favourite movie of the year so far - although, that's only because of a couple of other movies being more in line with my own personal tastes. But without doubt, it was the most moving, exhilarating, mind-blowing experience I've had in the cinema, not just this year but for a very long time (even taking Infinity War into account!)
    "The rules of regeneration are known!"

    "Sorry, what did you say? Did you mention the rules? Now, listen. A bit of advice: tell me the truth if you think you know it,
    lay down the law if you're feeling brave, but never ever tell me the rules!!"

  4. #229
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    I thought it was a great touch at Tony's funeral to have Harley Keener present -- the next generation Iron Man perhaps?
    That was bugging me. I just didn’t recognise him. Thanks, that makes sense now

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vworp Vworp View Post
    OK, so the timey wimey stuff is very much "We're doing it this way, even though it doesn't really make any sense".
    It makes sense.

  6. #231
    Mighty Member Vworp Vworp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    It makes sense.
    It makes sense within the parameters that the story says make sense.

    But it doesn't make sense.
    "The rules of regeneration are known!"

    "Sorry, what did you say? Did you mention the rules? Now, listen. A bit of advice: tell me the truth if you think you know it,
    lay down the law if you're feeling brave, but never ever tell me the rules!!"

  7. #232
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Very good movie overall. Really builds to a strong ending. Personally I think the first act is far too long. By my reckoning it’s a full third of the movie and that goes against the general flow of just about every successful movie ever made. Somehow it gets away with it though. I was just starting to wonder if I was getting what I wanted and the Cap v Cap fight occurred. I felt in safe hands from there on in. Let’s face it, nobody has ever made a movie quite like this before. It may end up being unique. It may also end up being the most successful movie ever (unadjusted for inflation). As an end to the franchise this would have been satisfying. As a major volume break it cleverly evokes the huge potential that many less developed characters could bring.

    As to people complaining about the timeline issues. There really are not any paradoxes, it just plays out differently. The key is that the Avengers exposit the rules but actually get the key element wrong. The Infinity Gems actually maintain the timeline, as long as they are restored back to their original time they will do the rest. Nearly all of the other apparent anomalies are actually different timelines interacting with the present. Nebula doesn’t kill her past self, she kills an alternative reality version of herself who will no longer exist once Cap puts the stones back. The only part of the equation that might appear to not work is Cap getting old and being in a non-divergent timeline. This is where the infinity Stones come into play. Once Steve has done his job, there is no divergent timeline. They all cease to exist. Steve is left in the past. He grows old while his other self is in the ice and presumably keeps a low profile during the events of the movies. He may or may not change the timeline, but it’s not really relevant because the stones are keeping things on track. Effectively it’s a combination of ‘time is a river that tends to course correct’ and ‘time diverges so the present never changes’.

    As for Spidy and his mates, we should probably await his movie. But bear in mind huge clusters of dusted people are not only probable, they are inevitable. So it’s not improbable or even unlikely that an entire school got dusted. It only feels unlikely because it is the only school we see.

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    As to people complaining about the timeline issues. There really are not any paradoxes, it just plays out differently. The key is that the Avengers exposit the rules but actually get the key element wrong. The Infinity Gems actually maintain the timeline, as long as they are restored back to their original time they will do the rest. Nearly all of the other apparent anomalies are actually different timelines interacting with the present. Nebula doesn’t kill her past self, she kills an alternative reality version of herself who will no longer exist once Cap puts the stones back. The only part of the equation that might appear to not work is Cap getting old and being in a non-divergent timeline. This is where the infinity Stones come into play. Once Steve has done his job, there is no divergent timeline. They all cease to exist. Steve is left in the past. He grows old while his other self is in the ice and presumably keeps a low profile during the events of the movies. He may or may not change the timeline, but it’s not really relevant because the stones are keeping things on track. Effectively it’s a combination of ‘time is a river that tends to course correct’ and ‘time diverges so the present never changes’.
    Old Cap comes from the branched timeline. He visits the main timeline.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    But the Sorcerer Supreme said that if you put the infinity stones back where you got them in time, they would put the divergents timelines back into the right path, fixing time. So there shouldn't be other timelines, but time paradoxes, like a younger Gamora in the present, while the past of history still has her with his father, later joining the Guardians and finally dying for the soul stone. At least that's how I undestand it, though when it gets released in bluray I'll pay more attention to details. This time I was too absorbed by the story
    As I understand it, the Sorcerer’s issue was that taking our timestone screws up our timeline. Because she can see its future and destiny, and it involves the stone. Which is why you have you must return it or her timeline is screwed.

    In a model where there is only one continuous timeline then killing young Thanos or preventing the snap becomes a definite option. Which is what Cap being able to live his life out in this tineline implies.


    A doubt one friend had was how did Thanos and his crew made to travel through time if the only Pym Particle that Nebula had was used in her younger self. Sure, she made it to the other side and brought his father, but wouldn't be necessary for that that Thanos had another capsule of Pym Particles to shrink the ship and manage time travel? If we missed a detail that explained that please let me know to answer his question haha
    Great now that is going to bug me too... unless Thanos advanced tech allowed him to replicate the pym particles offscreen.

  10. #235
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    I also find it amusing that, in the comics, great pains were taken to have Carol's hair grow out to match her movie appearance. Yet here she ends up with the short hair. So can we expect her to get it cut again in the comics anytime soon? Also, now that Tony has a daughter with Pepper, how long before that gets carried over into the comics?
    Carol's hair - that'll depend on how she looks in her own sequel. They'll probably keep it as it is for now. Don't forget Black Widow was constantly changing her hair, maybe Carol will too.

    As for Tony, I think Slott's run on his book is meant to last about another year, ending with an Iron Man 2020 event. Maybe the next writer will be more inclined to use Pepper. It won't happen under Slott.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Does it state how exactly Banner and Hulk 'merge'? Maybe he got some help from Ty Burrel's Samson like in the comics. (BTW according to the Russos Betty was apparently a victim of the snap, not sure if the General was)
    Sounds like they adapted the ending of Amadeus Cho's book! He merged with his Hulk too, creating Brawn.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshGuy View Post
    If Nebula killed her younger self then she shouldn't still be alive.
    That's a paradox. If her younger self died her older self isn't there to kill her, so her younger self is still alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    I thought it was a great touch at Tony's funeral to have Harley Keener present -- the next generation Iron Man perhaps?
    Not gonna happen. He doesn't exist in the comics.
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  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    INFINITY WAR: basically, if Strange tells Tony they're in the right timeline before everything that needs to happen happens, it won't happen. Strange holding up the one finger is a signal to Tony that everything that needs to happen for them to win has happened, they are in the one timeline. If Strange had told Tony before this, those things wouldn't have happened. He saw 14 million futures. He knows exactly how this needs to play out.

    As for the time travel in ENDGAME, Hulk and the Ancient One make clear that you can't change the past. By changing things, you're just creating another timeline. Your past is your past, you can't change it. So even if Cap were to change things in his new life with Peggy, it wouldn't affect the main MCU timeline. The Gamora from 2014 running around in 2023 doesn't affect the Gamora we followed in GOTG 1-2 and infinity War. She still lived and died. The new Gamora is one from a different timeline. So if Cap were to change anything, it wouldn't affect the main MCU timeline.

    Easiest way to explain it is this:

    Main timeline: The one the MCU follows and is in now and will continue to follow.

    Timeline 2:
    Everything the same up until the Battle of New York. Loki escapes with the Tesseract, Captain America and Hulk steal the Mind and Time stones. Cap later returns these stones to the moment they were taken, restoring this timeline almost to normal (Loki is still on the loose with the Tesseract).

    Timeline 3: Everything the same up until "Thor: The Dark World". Rocket removes the Reality stone from Jane. Cap later returns the stone at the moment it was taken. This alternate timeline is erased and restored to the main timeline.

    Timeline 4: Everything same up until the 1970's. Tony steals the Tesseract from SHIELD. Cap later returns the Tesseract. This alternate timeline is erased and restored to the main timeline.

    Timeline 5: Everything same up until GOTG. Rhodey and Nebula steal the Power stone while Nat and Clint retrieve the Soul stone. The Thanos, Nebula, Gamora and Thanos's army of this timeline travel to Main Timeline, where Thanos, Nebula and Thanos's army are killed. Cap later returns the stones but this timeline goes forward without Thanos, Nebula and Gamora.

    Timeline 6: Captain America goes back to the 40's and lives a long and happy life with Peggy. Cap returns to the main timeline to say farewell to Bucky and Sam after Peggy presumably dies.

    As is made clear in the film, you cannot change the past. The past remains the same no matter what. The time travel rules from other movies don't apply to the MCU. Instead, you create a different timeline. The timeline you originated from still exists. The changes the Avengers make in the past have no effect on the future they came from.
    That all works except for Cap returning the main timeline in as much as how did he do it?
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Bifrost I thought only opens to the nine realms. Because they are all connected
    If that's the case its never been spelled out. Plus you can fly to Asgard and Nidavellir in regular space ships.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  13. #238
    Fantastic Member WaxHawk's Avatar
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    Nobody has mentioned the real 'unsung' hero - the rat that accidentally sets off Ant-Man's quantum gizmo!

    Without that little rodent most of the movie is toast. It should be getting more plaudits.

  14. #239
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    Despite having read all the spoilers I could manage, I got chills during

    spoilers:
    the lead up to "Avengers Assemble!"
    end of spoilers

    and teared up a bit immediately after.

  15. #240
    Fantastic Member Potanical Pardon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    INFINITY WAR: basically, if Strange tells Tony they're in the right timeline before everything that needs to happen happens, it won't happen. Strange holding up the one finger is a signal to Tony that everything that needs to happen for them to win has happened, they are in the one timeline. If Strange had told Tony before this, those things wouldn't have happened. He saw 14 million futures. He knows exactly how this needs to play out.

    As for the time travel in ENDGAME, Hulk and the Ancient One make clear that you can't change the past. By changing things, you're just creating another timeline. Your past is your past, you can't change it. So even if Cap were to change things in his new life with Peggy, it wouldn't affect the main MCU timeline. The Gamora from 2014 running around in 2023 doesn't affect the Gamora we followed in GOTG 1-2 and infinity War. She still lived and died. The new Gamora is one from a different timeline. So if Cap were to change anything, it wouldn't affect the main MCU timeline.

    Easiest way to explain it is this:

    Main timeline: The one the MCU follows and is in now and will continue to follow.

    Timeline 2:
    Everything the same up until the Battle of New York. Loki escapes with the Tesseract, Captain America and Hulk steal the Mind and Time stones. Cap later returns these stones to the moment they were taken, restoring this timeline almost to normal (Loki is still on the loose with the Tesseract).

    Timeline 3: Everything the same up until "Thor: The Dark World". Rocket removes the Reality stone from Jane. Cap later returns the stone at the moment it was taken. This alternate timeline is erased and restored to the main timeline.

    Timeline 4: Everything same up until the 1970's. Tony steals the Tesseract from SHIELD. Cap later returns the Tesseract. This alternate timeline is erased and restored to the main timeline.

    Timeline 5: Everything same up until GOTG. Rhodey and Nebula steal the Power stone while Nat and Clint retrieve the Soul stone. The Thanos, Nebula, Gamora and Thanos's army of this timeline travel to Main Timeline, where Thanos, Nebula and Thanos's army are killed. Cap later returns the stones but this timeline goes forward without Thanos, Nebula and Gamora.

    Timeline 6: Captain America goes back to the 40's and lives a long and happy life with Peggy. Cap returns to the main timeline to say farewell to Bucky and Sam after Peggy presumably dies.

    As is made clear in the film, you cannot change the past. The past remains the same no matter what. The time travel rules from other movies don't apply to the MCU. Instead, you create a different timeline. The timeline you originated from still exists. The changes the Avengers make in the past have no effect on the future they came from.
    This is all perfectly how I understand it and agree how it should be except for one thing that is wrong: Old Cap shouldn't be in the Main Timeline at all. Peggy would have still married and had children with whatever guy that wasn't Cap, secret identity to preserve timeline being irrelevant.

    ETA: The only way Old Cap back in Main Timeline works is if Cap spent most of his life in Timeline #WhicheverOneWasLastStoneReturnedNumber and then maybe after Peggy died (possibly around the same time as Civil War in Main Timeline), Cap decided to use his unused Pym Particle to finally return to pass on his shield and title.

    ETA2: I just realized Cap would have had to use the return Particle to go back to the 40s to have had his dance with Peggy. Oh well, they're SHIELD, I'm sure they just asked some altHank in the 70s to make an extra 140ml of Pymp Juice. So a Timeline 7.

    ETA3: Nevermiind. I mistakenly overlooked your Timeline 6. You're good.
    Last edited by Potanical Pardon; 04-25-2019 at 07:13 PM.

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