Avengers: Endgame Spoilers

[Iron_Legion87]

When Wanda and Clint bond by the lake, Clint says he hopes that "she" knows they won. Wanda replies that "they both" know.

Now, obviously Clint was referring to Natasha. But my friend and I had different responses for Wanda's reference. Did she mean Tony (since it was his funeral, and the most immediate death), Vision (the love of her life), or Quicksilver (her brother and the man Clint honored by naming his son in Pietro's honor)?

Honestly, anyone could make the case for any three of them, and there'll be no argument from me.

I agree it was kinda vague and could be about any of them really. But I guess the assumption is that she is referring to Vision.

[Star_Jammer]

Two other questions I have been wondering about...

1. What was going on in Wakanda for five years? Did they have a new ruler or was Okeye calling the shots?

Okoye, apparently, was Black Widow’s contact point. We don’t know all who got dusted in Wakanda as far as potential “heirs” besides Shuri (can it be a female anyway), but we do know M’Baku wasn’t.

Part of me hopes Wakandans were trying to work on their own resolution to the snap, holding out hope that they could get T’Challa back, but we don’t know of any “scientific types” outside of Shuri (who, again, was dusted).

[Iron_Legion87]

Two other questions I have been wondering about...

1. What was going on in Wakanda for five years? Did they have a new ruler or was Okeye calling the shots?

2. Are the Sokovia Accords effectively cancelled now? We see Ross at the end which suggests he’s gotten over issues with Cap and his pals.

I think the sequel movies for the characters that got dusted like Dr Strange, Spidey, and Black Panther will sorta deal with the aftermath of them being gone five years. Like I am sure Black Panther 2 will have some fallout from T‘ Challa being gone. Peter sorta explains what happened to them all after being dusted during the final battle. Same with Far From Home. They gonna have to explain the five year time jump as realistically Ned and Michelle should be college aged now in the current timeline and Peter is still 15.

[Mutant 77]

That flys in the face of what actually happened when she demonstrated moving a stone.

First she showed the timeline.
Then she showed the stones circling it to represent how they maintain the flow of time.
Then she showed that by removing a stone a timeline branches.
Then when she put it back again the branch dusted.

This perfectly does away with any timeline anomalies. Banner was just wrong. Time can be altered, but the stones maintain the timeline, making sure the future is not significantly altered. Thanos was threatening to use the stones to totally rewrite the timeline, so that thematically fits too. The stones make new realities. If they are kept together in the same timeline they will make sure destiny is maintained. No branching without stones being time shifted.

I think you're correct.

What about having a time traveler in the past NOT removing the stones, but making an impact on events of that past?

[Star_Jammer]

I think the sequel movies for the characters that got dusted like Dr Strange, Spidey, and Black Panther will sorta deal with the aftermath of them being gone five years. Like I am sure Black Panther 2 will have some fallout from T‘ Challa being gone. Same with Far From Home. They gonna have to explain the five year time jump and Peter as realistically Ned and Michelle should be college aged now in the current timeline.

Just had a shuddering thought: what if the aftermath of T’Challa being gone for so long leads to the second Black Panther movie drawing heavy inspiration from the early parts of Coates’ run.

[David Walton]

Okoye, apparently, was Black Widow’s contact point. We don’t know all who got dusted in Wakanda as far as potential “heirs” besides Shuri (can it be a female anyway), but we do know M’Baku wasn’t.

Part of me hopes Wakandans were trying to work on their own resolution to the snap, holding out hope that they could get T’Challa back, but we don’t know of any “scientific types” outside of Shuri (who, again, was dusted).

The five year time gap seems like the kind of rabbit hole they don't want to go too far down.

Logically, the sudden doubling of the world's population after years of barely functional governments would be absolute chaos. Not to mention the bureaucratic nightmares involved with legal versus chronological ages, remarriages and the like...

[Iron_Legion87]

Just had a shuddering thought: what if the aftermath of T’Challa being gone for so long leads to the second Black Panther movie drawing heavy inspiration from the early parts of Coates’ run.

I could be interesting choice if they did.

[MindofShadow]

Just had a shuddering thought: what if the aftermath of T’Challa being gone for so long leads to the second Black Panther movie drawing heavy inspiration from the early parts of Coates’ run.

I hate you right now for uttering the thought

Okoye, apparently, was Black Widow’s contact point. We don’t know all who got dusted in Wakanda as far as potential “heirs” besides Shuri (can it be a female anyway), but we do know M’Baku wasn’t.

There aren't anymore heirs other than T'challa and Shuri unless there is another secret sibling out there lol

[MindofShadow]

I could be interesting choice if they did.

It doesn't really work though.

The (terrible stupid no good) reason for Coates run was that T'challa was a **** king that allowed countless stuff to happen under his watch (which was, once again stupid)

This time he was just... gone. And it wasn't even his fault. In fact, he tried to stop it.

There really isn't a reason for a true revolution

It does, however, open the door for a potential villain to be building during that 5 years. Someone like Achebe taking advantage of the chaos.

[Star_Jammer]

I hate you right now for uttering the thought



There aren't anymore heirs other than T'challa and Shuri unless there is another secret sibling out there lol

By “heirs”, I meant persons that are eligible (according to Wakandan law) to challenge for the position of ruler (such as M’Baku). We never met any of the other potential people from the other tribes, as the other tribes all seemed content to let T’Challa receive the position unchallenged.

So maybe the wrong word on my part.

And...sorry, not sorry.

[JKtheMac]

I think this comes down to personal preference. I love alternate timelines. As for why the MCU would go with it, as opposed to neatly tying everything up? Because of storytelling potential. Like how you get a Gamora who both is and isn't like the one we knew. She has no romantic history with Star Lord and no relationship with the Guardians, but bonded with Nebula faster than she did in the original timeline. Lots of different places they can go with that. And you can get things like an alternate Tony Stark showing up somewhere down the line, alive and well because IW and EG never happened in his timeline.

Actually I kind of agree with you, but I don't think many YouTubers would do these days, and in general time travel stories are always full of contradictions anyway. Most movies always like to have a moment where they explain the rules and usually they stick to them. This one has multiple explanations from many sources, but the authority on time has to be the guardian of the Time Stone.

I just consulted with a few others I watched it with and the key point made by The Ancient One is that what we perceive as the flow of time is generated by the stones.

The visual implication is that there is a flow in the time-stream. I remember it as sparkles, but apparently it was glowing threads intertwined. The implication being that the flow is contained within the bounds of the stone's diagrammatic orbit. When The Ancient One swipes the time stone out of their spinning pattern the branching timeline follows it. Bruce plucks it out of thin air and puts it back, explaining that "It never left". The branch turns to dust and drifts away.

[JKtheMac]

I think you're correct.

What about having a time traveler in the past NOT removing the stones, but making an impact on events of that past?

I think we have this with Steve and Loki. Perhaps they change the timeline, perhaps it was always like this. Either way I don't think there is any branching because it is the stones that create the flow of time, and they presumably stop branches occurring.

[JKtheMac]

It doesn't really work though.

The (terrible stupid no good) reason for Coates run was that T'challa was a **** king that allowed countless stuff to happen under his watch (which was, once again stupid)

This time he was just... gone. And it wasn't even his fault. In fact, he tried to stop it.

There really isn't a reason for a true revolution

It does, however, open the door for a potential villain to be building during that 5 years. Someone like Achebe taking advantage of the chaos.

Not visiting the Black Panther appreciation thread much recently has made me forget how much some of you didn't like A Nation Under Our Feet. Some of us just don't see it as "stupid" and don't believe he was saying T'Challa was a "**** king" at all. Just that monarchy without a modern constitution is flawed. I can indeed imagine that being a theme in a future movie. We know Coates and Coogler consulted, and we know many choices of both art and direction were influenced by the movie.

[MindofShadow]

Not visiting the Black Panther appreciation thread much recently has made me forget how much some of you didn't like A Nation Under Our Feet. Some of us just don't see it as "stupid" and don't believe he was saying T'Challa was a "**** king" at all. Just that monarchy without a modern constitution is flawed. I can indeed imagine that being a theme in a future movie. We know Coates and Coogler consulted, and we know many choices of both art and direction were influenced by the movie.

Wakanda just had a civil war, I doubt Coogler would want to re-open that box in the second movie. Especially when such a force of blacks came out for the movie. We don't tend to be overly found of constant black dysfunction on screen.

I also don't agree with what you think Coates was saying vs what was actually presented on panel but this certainly isn't the thread for such a discussion

[lilyinblue]

I'm now wondering if the animated 'What If?' series they've discussed for Disney+ is designed to explore some of these alternate timelines?