Avengers: Endgame Spoilers

[Vworp Vworp]

The movie clearly missed a trick. When older Nebula met younger Nebula, she totally should have said "OK Kid. This is where it gets complicated."

And judging by the theories on this thread alone, she wouldn't have been wrong either.

[JKtheMac]

There seems to be a consensus amongst some, especially those a little disappointed, that this will necessitate more prequels. I don’t believe this for one second. I predict now that the next Spider-Man movie will follow on directly, because the ending suggests it. I predict that Natasha will be pulled back out of the Soul Stone, but that it might be in an unexpected way. The stones can’t be used to bring her back, but we have seen Gamora seemingly still existing inside.

[JKtheMac]

The movie clearly missed a trick. When older Nebula met younger Nebula, she totally should have said "OK Kid. This is where it gets complicated."

And judging by the theories on this thread alone, she wouldn't have been wrong either.

It would have been fun. Not sure it would have fitted the character but I would have loved it.

[Derek Metaltron]

The movie clearly missed a trick. When older Nebula met younger Nebula, she totally should have said "OK Kid. This is where it gets complicated."

And judging by the theories on this thread alone, she wouldn't have been wrong either.

If nothing else I'm waiting for the point where Kang turns up and says 'Geez guys, how much have you mucked time up?"

[JKtheMac]

Once again it has NOTHING to do with who became Cap.

I just wanted more Steve and Bucky interaction because I felt like their relationship is stronger than Steve's and Sam's. And was portrayed that way throughout the films.

It’s OK we get what you meant. You are right that it would have been nice. On the other hand we had an entire movie binging on their unshakable trust in each other, so I found the quiet standing back of Bucky quite touching. He was as good as saying, ‘go ahead this is your moment’. It’s a very generous moment on his part.

[PaulBullion]

There seems to be a consensus amongst some, especially those a little disappointed, that this will necessitate more prequels. I don’t believe this for one second. I predict now that the next Spider-Man movie will follow on directly, because the ending suggests it. I predict that Natasha will be pulled back out of the Soul Stone, but that it might be in an unexpected way. The stones can’t be used to bring her back, but we have seen Gamora seemingly still existing inside.

Maybe with everybody expecting a "Red Sparrow" kind of film, Marvel will instead give us a Black Widow movie inside Soul World, with Nat fighting to get home alongside older Gamora (maybe MUCH older Gamora?) and bringing the X-Men and Fantastic Four into the MCU on the way?

[CRaymond]

Maybe with everybody expecting a "Red Sparrow" kind of film, Marvel will instead give us a Black Widow movie inside Soul World, with Nat fighting to get home alongside older Gamora (maybe MUCH older Gamora?) and bringing the X-Men and Fantastic Four into the MCU on the way?

A Black Widow movie still needs to be a *Natasha Romanov* movie. The plot should exemplify her personal conflict, not suddenly leapfrog into a magical/cosmic/afterlife context. I understand people want Nat back but her stories have ALWAYS been hidden beneath the other Avengers. It could be argued she’s had a death wish for as long as we’ve known her. My argument for a Red Sparrow prequel is we might learn what happened in her past to make her the living ghost she became in Avengers.

I’m not a fan of the choice to kill her on Vormir, but I also don’t think she should be resurrected easily, cleanly, or even presently. You’d have to get REALLY crazy, like have her be part of Kang’s retinue, or have her voice act an appearance in the Sony Spider-verse movies. “Black Widow”, get it?

[JKtheMac]

Maybe with everybody expecting a "Red Sparrow" kind of film, Marvel will instead give us a Black Widow movie inside Soul World, with Nat fighting to get home alongside older Gamora (maybe MUCH older Gamora?) and bringing the X-Men and Fantastic Four into the MCU on the way?

I am intrigued by the idea that the next major arc could be a time travel inflected story, in a similar way to how the last ten years have been an Infinity Stones inflected story. That perhaps the slowly developing bad guy might be Kang, who will perhaps be teased late on, and perhaps has already had a few seeds scattered into Endgame. We might be talking four or five films before we see this but it could suggest that little touches of time travel and or Steve having altered things, could be setting something up.

So maybe Natasha is released when Steve puts the stone back, perhaps though some storyline we have yet to see in a TV show or movie after credit scene, and she lives through the events of the five year devastation behind the scenes. This is not so much a prediction as a suggestion that there are loads of potential stories and we need not jump to the conclusion that it will be a prequel.

[Russ840]

I don’t really understand the confusion.

They went to, effectively, parallel universes. Not their past. So what ever happened in those “pasts” would not affect the future. The only part that is unclear is Cap at the end.

My explaination is when he returned to the platform, he did so small ( like antman ) and ran over to the bench to surprise everyone lol.

[snark^]

Looking at the funeral scene I was thinking, “Damn, Carol has no friends at all.” LOL

Well everyone else is already struggling with a mere five years time displacement. Excepting the Rambeaus and Fury damn near everyone Carol knew is dead or gone from 25 years back. The only one who could outdo that would be Cap and he got to go back and spend the rest of his life with Peggy.

[brettc1]

They literally give us a PowerPoint lecture, from the guardian of the Time Stone and our green Avengers time travel guy, telling us you can close a branch. All that is needed is to put the stone back at the exact same time. (It probably doesn’t even matter where you put it, just the moment.)

No, that is not what they said.

What they said is that putting the stone back will not allow that reality to fall into darkness. They are specifically referring to the time stone, the thing that helps the sorceror supereme keep Dormammu from absorbing our universe into the DARK dimension. When the Ancient One shows a branch of reality going off into blackness, that is what she is referring to. She says MULTIPLE times she must protect HER reality, not Bruces. Therefore, their realities are NOT the same.

So putting the stone back protects them from Dormammu, but it DOESN'T close that branch because [a] it was always separate and [b] CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE. Those changes must now play out in the alternative timeline.

Think about it. If the Thanos who died at the end of the movie is the one from OUR timeline, then nothing makes sense. Therefore, he must be from the alternative timeline which will now play out without him in it.

In short, the Avengers never travel into OUR past. They always emerge into an exact quantum duplicate, which continues to exist after they have left.

I don’t really understand the confusion.

They went to, effectively, parallel universes. Not their past. So what ever happened in those “pasts” would not affect the future. The only part that is unclear is Cap at the end.

My explaination is when he returned to the platform, he did so small ( like antman ) and ran over to the bench to surprise everyone lol.

Yes, this is correct in terms of where they went. As for how he got back there - we KNOW Peggy dies at the time Civil War takes place, years before Endgame. Clearly Cap found a way to return from where he was since then, bringing that reality's Shield with him.

I expect he also made some changes along the way - rooting out Hydra, helping against Loki, and probably also warning folks about Thanos to stop the Titan doing exactly what he did in our own universe.

[Midvillian1322]

So is it only the power stone that will destroy people for simply touching it? Cause the time stone and Soul stone were touched by people now and seemed ok. But even Thanos pulled the power stone out blasted Captain marvel and put it back into the glove and it seemed to take a toll on him. So maybe it's just the power stone and not all stones. I mean the reality stone did enter Jane and she didnt die instantly. So I'm guessing yea it's only the power stone.


Just realized Xandar is still gone since they only brought back people who were dusted. Could be a good way to do Nova, a almost wiped out Nova core initiates a new program starting with Richard Rider( Or jump to Sam it doesnt matter to me I think I'm in the minority who really like Sam Alexander.Also really wanna see Titus. Feel like if done right Marvel could pull off a bad ass character with him. I mean basically a walking talking tiger lol)

[Midvillian1322]

No, that is not what they said.

What they said is that putting the stone back will not allow that reality to fall into darkness. They are specifically referring to the time stone, the thing that helps the sorceror supereme keep Dormammu from absorbing our universe into the DARK dimension. When the Ancient One shows a branch of reality going off into blackness, that is what she is referring to. She says MULTIPLE times she must protect HER reality, not Bruces. Therefore, their realities are NOT the same.

So putting the stone back protects them from Dormammu, but it DOESN'T close that branch because CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE. Those changes must now play out in the altered timeline.

Think about it. If the Thanos who died at the end of the movie is the one from OUR timeline, then nothing makes sense. Therefore, he must be from the alternative timeline which will now play out without him in it.

In short, the Avengers never travel into OUR past. They always emerge into an exact quantum duplicate, which continues to exist after they have left.

If that's all true though Dr Strange is screwed in Doctor strange 2 because The stones are all gone thanks to Thanos. Dormammu on his way lol. Naw Mordos next but the stones are gone in the present and that's not good

[JKtheMac]

No, that is not what they said.

What they said is that putting the stone back will not allow that reality to fall into darkness. They are specifically referring to the time stone, the thing that helps the sorceror supereme keep Dormammu from absorbing our universe into the DARK dimension. When the Ancient One shows a branch of reality going off into blackness, that is what she is referring to. She says MULTIPLE times she must protect HER reality, not Bruces. Therefore, their realities are NOT the same.

So putting the stone back protects them from Dormammu, but it DOESN'T close that branch because [a] it was always separate and [b] CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE. Those changes must now play out in the alternative timeline.

Think about it. If the Thanos who died at the end of the movie is the one from OUR timeline, then nothing makes sense. Therefore, he must be from the alternative timeline which will now play out without him in it.

In short, the Avengers never travel into OUR past. They always emerge into an exact quantum duplicate, which continues to exist after they have left.

I have now seen this twice and payed very special attention to this scene. While they do use the Time Stone as the specific stone TAO says ‘a’ stone not ‘this stone’. She is indeed talking about her reality not his, because they exist in different times and he is proposing removing the stone. Indeed let’s just get a baseline here. I will dig out my notes and give a complete summary in a future post.

[JKtheMac]

This isn't a transcript or a script, this is me recompiling the events based on my notes after watching it the second time and keeping the exact details in mind.

A: Sorry I can’t help you. If I give up the Time Stone to help your reality, I’m dooming my own.
B: With all due respect, I’m not sure the science really supports that.
She shows him a timeline with Infinity Stones circling a single point. The timeline is depicted as glowing, flowing lines like golden yarn wrapped around itself, constantly in flux.
A: The infinity stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone…
She swoops away the time stone. A dark, branched flow emerges from the timeline following the motion of the stone.
A: and that flow splits. This may benefit your reality, but not my one.
A: In this new branch reality, without our weapon against the forces of darkness, millions will suffer. Can your science prevent that?
B: But we can erase it, we can return each one to its own timeline at the exact moment it was taken.
He grabs the green stone out of thin air from the direction of the flow.
B: So chronologically…
Places it back with the other stones
B: It never left.
He watches as the branch reality dusts and disappears

--

Now I know there is some wiggle room left here, but combined with the rest of the movie, and the apparent paradox of Steve having lived in the same timeline, I believe they are saying changes don't branch reality, but moving stones out of the timeline will. Importantly they use the same visual dust analogy as the snap to show the timeline being collapsed.

Another visual analogy is the way the stones circle the timeline. This suggests that they are creating the boundary of what is possible. That they marshal the flow in some way. Control it and indeed create it. That no branches can occur while they are doing their job.

Also, there is nothing specifically special about the time stone in the way it is depicted. She says "Remove one stone" not "remove the Time Stone"

PS. If anyone has the exact dialogue I know I missed a few words, but I am positive I got the right meaning here, because I was paying very close attention and scribbling like mad for a few minutes.