Avengers: Endgame Spoilers

[Ronin705]

From where? She wouldn’t be their Natasha and her absence would likely negatively impact her timeline. The Avengers have no desire to screw up other universes for the sake of their own.

But there's now a universe where the guardians don't come together, and steve inserted himself into another, meaning time is already screwed, no?

[JKtheMac]

Replacing. Like Natasha the original Gamora is dead and can’t be brought back because of her death via the Soul Stone... although it might be possible that Adam Warlock in GOTG 3 is gonna bring the Soul World into play, which might be a way of seeing both the present Gamora and Natasha return.

Might? Surely this would be the only reason to bring Warlock into play? Surely nobody wants to see a heavy Christ analogy in a US comedic science fiction movie. (Well I say nobody, I would.)

[Derek Metaltron]

But there's now a universe where the guardians don't come together, and steve inserted himself into another, meaning time is already screwed, no?

I got the impression that Tony’s snap basically erased the deviation or existence of the alternative GOTG timeline, though maybe not since the alternative Gamora survives. Something which might be tackled in GOTG 3.

I also suspect that there will be consequences for their time travel antics, likely involving Kang or Mordo. But the point is that they don’t wanna mess things even more up. It’s hard to see if what Steve did and where he went was bad or not. But we might already have up to three significantly altered timelines in play to counter the original MCU timeline - the alternative 2012 universe with Loki, the alternative 2014 universe where Thanos was from (if it still exists) and the alternative 1945 timeline Steve might have created.

[Ronin705]

I got the impression that Tony’s snap basically erased the deviation or existence of the alternative GOTG timeline, though maybe not since the alternative Gamora survives. Something which might be tackled in GOTG 3.

I also suspect that there will be consequences for their time travel antics, likely involving Kang or Mordo. But the point is that they don’t wanna mess things even more up. It’s hard to see if what Steve did and where he went was bad or not. But we might already have up to three significantly altered timelines in play to counter the original MCU timeline - the alternative 2012 universe with Loki, the alternative 2014 universe where Thanos was from (if it still exists) and the alternative 1945 timeline Steve might have created.

Great, this is gonna turn into as much of a headache as time travel is in comics lmao

[kingaliencracker]

So I've seen Endgame twice now. It was a very good, entertaining movie and provided a satisfying conclusion to the Infinity Saga. I don't think it was as good as Infinity War. However, if Infinity War was The Dark Knight in comparison of quality, then Endgame is The Dark Knight Rises in comparison, and there's really nothing wrong with that.

As far as the confusion regarding the time travel elements, I actually think the movie did a pretty good job in explaining it's own version of time travel. As long as Cap returned the time stones to the eras in which they were found, the primary MCU timeline would remain in tact and the separate branches of time that were created would realign. However, it didn't end cleanly. Loki stole the tesseract and that branch remains loose, while a similar branch was left unchecked by 2014 Thanos and the Black Order time jumping to the future, subsequently being wiped out by Tony. This creates a divergent timeline in which Thanos' quest for the Infinity Stones ended in 2014, as well as leaves a time remnant Gamora in present day MCU. Now, this is assuming that Tony simply wiped the group from existence, and didn't return them to 2014. I think the latter is far less likely but I suppose the movie didn't explicitly state one way or the other, so it remains a possibility.

As far as Cap going back to the 1940's, I don't see any reason not to assume he wasn't always Peggy's husband. This was always going to be Steve's journey. Nothing is altered, it's just destiny fulfilled.

[Derek Metaltron]

Great, this is gonna turn into as much of a headache as time travel is in comics lmao

Lol, yep. And that’s assuming that both the Asgard 2013 and 1970 SHIELD timelines weren’t subtly altered enough to become fully alternative timelines themselves. Imagine when Kang shows up if he has alternative versions of Loki, Malekith, Ronan and Zola in tow from those altered timelines. Oops.

[Nate Grey]

As far as Cap going back to the 1940's, I don't see any reason not to assume he wasn't always Peggy's husband. This was always going to be Steve's journey. Nothing is altered, it's just destiny fulfilled.

I was going to post something similar but then I realized this thread has ballooned over people arguing/"discussing" the time travel aspect, so I'll just say I agree with you.

[Derek Metaltron]

As far as Cap going back to the 1940's, I don't see any reason not to assume he wasn't always Peggy's husband. This was always going to be Steve's journey. Nothing is altered, it's just destiny fulfilled.

He wouldn’t be able to go back to his own timeline’s past though. The rules of time travel that the Ancient One gave stated that.

[Buried Alien]

Anyone else feel that Black Widow barely had any action scenes this time around?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[kingaliencracker]

He wouldn’t be able to go back to his own timeline’s past though. The rules of time travel that the Ancient One gave stated that.

But Bruce specifically corrects the Ancient One's interpretation of time travel by showing her that if the time stone is returned to its proper location, then the branch realigns with the primary timeline.

So if Cap went back in time and married Peggy, but was able to encounter Sam and Bucky in the primary timeline, this would lead you to conclude that Cap was always supposed to go back and marry Peggy.

[Jokerz79]

He wouldn’t be able to go back to his own timeline’s past though. The rules of time travel that the Ancient One gave stated that.

I assumed he went to around 1950 around the time Agent Carter TV series events ended which are definitely movie canon given Jarvis was with Stark in the 70's and after he was on ice and simply lived under an alias in the shadows. In retrospect it now makes sense why they never mentioned her husbands name even at her funeral she was "Peggy Carter" so I now guess Steve took the Carter name.

[Derek Metaltron]

But Bruce specifically corrects the Ancient One's interpretation of time travel by showing her that if the time stone is returned to its proper location, then the branch realigns with the primary timeline.

So if Cap went back in time and married Peggy, but was able to encounter Sam and Bucky in the primary timeline, this would lead you to conclude that Cap was always supposed to go back and marry Peggy.

No, every time they travel back they are in an alternative parallel past, not their own. The Ancient One and Hulk say as much that it’s impossible for them to go to their own specific past. So Steve could never go back to his own past and settle down with Peggy because that already happened and cannot be changed. All he could do and almost certainly did was travel to an alternative 1945 and be with that version of Peggy, and then return to his own universe (where he was frozen in ice until 2012) to meet Sam and Bucky.

A headache I know but I am just following the rules of time travel they set up in the film.

[Largo161]

I approached with trepidation. I didn’t like Infinity War. I tried to watch IW a second time and couldn’t get through it. So I say with great relief that the Russos, with Endgame, made me a believer (again). I bow down to them for what they accomplished with the film.

[kingaliencracker]

No, every time they travel back they are in an alternative parallel past, not their own. The Ancient One and Hulk say as much that it’s impossible for them to go to their own specific past. So Steve could never go back to his own past and settle down with Peggy because that already happened and cannot be changed. All he could do and almost certainly did was travel to an alternative 1945 and be with that version of Peggy, and then return to his own universe (where he was frozen in ice until 2012) to meet Sam and Bucky.

A headache I know but I am just following the rules of time travel they set up in the film.

- Bruce tells Rhoades and Lang that they can't go back and simply kill Thanos as a baby because that would create a separate, alternate timeline but that they would still be in the timeline in which Thanos did the snap.

- The Ancient One tells Bruce that she can't give him the Time Stone because the Infinity stones keep reality in check and if they are separated it would create divergent realities. Bruce corrects her by explaining to her that if the time stone is returned to the exact time it was taken, reality would realign and the branch no longer exists.

Nowhere in those conversations was it ever explicitly or even implicitly stated that when they traveled back in time, they weren't traveling back to their own timeline, just that if they altered anything significantly then it would create a divergent reality. If they weren't traveling back to their own time or reality, then why bother returning the stones or trying to be convert in taking them?

[kingaliencracker]

On a side note, did anyone catch the veiled reference to Batman v Superman in the Cap vs. Cap fight?