Avengers: Endgame Spoilers

[Ascended]

Hey all you nerds, what's the explanation for how the Avengers knew the time stone would be in New York in 2012? Seems like a not-obvious place for it to be.

They knew Strange had it. They were expecting to find him there, not the Ancient One.

Now, they could've worried that Strange or the Stone wouldn't be in the same place, but the Sanctum is clearly lived-in when Tony and Banner visit, and Thor got a pretty interesting tour in Ragnarok, so the odds would likely seem pretty good that, even if Strange or the Stone aren't at the Sanctum, the people there will know where to find it. At worst it's a place to start looking.

I'm actually pretty happy we got that scene; it helps show that the wizards weren't just ignoring the stuff happening in the world (the Ancient One fighting Chitari was great), but still chose not to reveal themselves to the Avengers. Made sense to me.

Anyway. Saw the movie yesterday with my wife and son. What a emotionally draining but satisfying experience! I feel like the O6 Avengers all got a "proper" ending, which was one of my biggest hopes/concerns; Banner has found his balance with the Hulk and is celebrated by earth. Clint got his family back, finally got handled like a real badass and had some really strong moments (about time to) while setting up a perfect way for him to pass the torch. Widow got to make a heroic sacrifice, ultimately putting to rest her fears that she wasn't "really" a hero (yeah its lame that the only female OG Avenger died but I thought it made sense within the context). Steve got his happy ending (I originally thought he and Tony should both die but after seeing the film.....that'd be too much heartbreak, one of them deserved a happy ending). Tony's death, which I think most of us saw coming, was a perfect way to wrap up his story and finish the character arc he's been on since the Battle of New York. His final line was perfect. And Thor gets the prospect of more adventures (I have hoped Hemsworth would stick around and this gives me hope he's got a movie left in him).

I thought the pacing early on was a little slow, and it took a while for the narrative to really get going, but once it hit its stride the time just flew by; it didn't feel like a three hour movie to me or the fam. The editing was as good as it was going to be considering all the plots the Russos had in the air. I'm not sure how I feel about the five year time jump staying, or about the way they handled time travel itself. Gonna have to watch that a few more times to figure out their internal logic; they had to return the Stones to the eras they took them, but 2014 Thanos and his forces dying didn't change history? What?

I also wish we had gotten some more interactions between random characters and some explanation about the Soul World.....but while I would've happily accepted a four hour movie I doubt most people would've rolled with that so I suppose those things just couldn't have been done and I can be cool with that. There's always future movies that might dig into those things.

Good humor sprinkled throughout which, given how friggin depressing this movie was at times, was definitely needed. Ha! America's ass indeed!

That final fight scene.....just wow. Avengers assemble. Ant-Man punching the....Chitari whale-thing in the face, the girls all getting together, Steve wielding Mjolnir (and Thor's reaction was great). Carol's solo fight with Thanos. I think the only way I could have been any happier is if Thor had gotten a slightly better showing there. He still kicked ass though.

Many of the cameos were unexpected (Jarvis? Crossbones? Sitwell? Never saw them coming). The callbacks to earlier films were all handled really well. The way they used Gamora and Nebula was excellent. Shame we didn't get Vision or Coulson, I feel like they're the only two who were missing. Even if both are returning on Agents of SHIELD and Wandavision (awful name) seeing them here would've been really nice.

Fat Thor was a ton of fun, though I feel like they ran a little too hard with it. The reasons Thor let himself go (in more ways than one) feel legit, but at the same time the man's a king now and I thought ignoring his responsibilities for five whole years was pushing it. Still, once he had a purpose and a chance to redeem his failure I thought the Russo's did right by the man. His "I'm still worthy!" was heart-touching, his making Steve trade Stormbreaker for Mjlonir (you take the little one!) was funny and highlighted some of his growth; even at this low-point he's moved on in some ways. And, finally, after all these years, he had a proper beard!

Yeah. I really couldnt be happier with how Endgame played out.

[CRaymond]

It actually makes me wonder who IS a physical threat to her?

The Four Horsemen. Johnny Walker, Jim Beam, Jack Daniels, and Jose Cuervo.

[KabutoRyder]

Did anyone else find the wig they put on Brie Larson horrible looking? I get that they are trying to make her character look comics accurate but that was awful.

Huh? What wig

[TriggerWarning]

Huh? What wig

Her short hair. Its either a wig or Brie Larson is wearing extensions right now as her hair hasn't been that short in any press interviews I've seen over the last year.

[Xheight]

Leadership is also part of it, given Odin's speech. While Cap was always a leader, I think his leadership skills have only grown since AoU. When Cap was first introduced, he was a leader, but in a by-the-book kind of way. He was the good soldier, the ultimate boy scout. Since AoU, he learned that that wasn't always the best way, he developed into a more independent thinker and operator. He seemed more regal in IW and Endgame.
close to Tokyo

While I agree that leadership is a factor in odins ideal I don't see that is changing very much for Cap, even in the way that you described. For Cap's real Arc is the moral/ethical one about the locus of choice and a skepticism of authority embedded in what you describe. Is his decision making any better in Ultron/Vision? I think not. He suggests that you shouldn't make decisions out of fear and he's partly right about Ultron but type is afraid of the future and science and just wrong about Vision.

To me, the interesting question isn't why Cap was worthy, it's whether he was worthy at the time of AoU but chose not to show it. Whedon made a comment at that time suggesting that Cap could have lifted Mjolnir then but decided not to do so: http://www.4ye.co.uk/2015/07/sdcc-20...ns-at-nerd-hq/

That reads more like Whedon yanking Fanboys
which goes to my real problem with this film and that the third Act as more fan service ( Cap's overpowered and misplaced sentimental send off in the most egregious example) and Marvel Studios taking care of business by seeing actors out of contracts than closure on any of the arcs.

[stillanerd]

Okay, first of all, Avengers: Endgame was great! A fantastic send-off for the original MCU Avengers. However, there's more likely a lot of folks confused about how time travel works in this movie. And although I am, by no means, a quantum physicist, I think I've done a pretty good job explaining how it works in this article...maybe:

Avengers: Endgame -- How time travel works

[Gaastra]

So cap is old. Why not use the time machine to make him younger like they did ant-man?

[stillanerd]

So cap is old. Why not use the time machine to make him younger like they did ant-man?

Yeah, they could have. Question is, would Steve really want to, essentially, grow up all over again? After all, he seems pretty content.

[Buried Alien]

Yeah, they could have. Question is, would Steve really want to, essentially, grow up all over again? After all, he seems pretty content.

It's an interesting existential point to ponder. I think many people have periodically wished that they could relive their youths, except with the knowledge and experience that they have acquired as adults. I imagine it's not an uncommon thought.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Midvillian1322]

It's an interesting existential point to ponder. I think many people have periodically wished that they could relive their youths, except with the knowledge and experience that they have acquired as adults. I imagine it's not an uncommon thought.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Steve would have lost Peggy a few years prior and if he had kids hes not gonna wanna have to watch them die aswell. Everybody wants to be superman till everyone you love starts dying around you and your gonna be here forever..

[AJBopp]

Eh, they worked with the intel they had. Dr. Strange had the stone with him when Bruce met him in New York, so they assumed that he had it with him there for a while. Instead, they got the Ancient One.

They knew Strange had it. They were expecting to find him there, not the Ancient One.

Now, they could've worried that Strange or the Stone wouldn't be in the same place, but the Sanctum is clearly lived-in when Tony and Banner visit, and Thor got a pretty interesting tour in Ragnarok, so the odds would likely seem pretty good that, even if Strange or the Stone aren't at the Sanctum, the people there will know where to find it. At worst it's a place to start looking.

I'm actually pretty happy we got that scene; it helps show that the wizards weren't just ignoring the stuff happening in the world (the Ancient One fighting Chitari was great), but still chose not to reveal themselves to the Avengers. Made sense to me.

I liked the scene too, but I'm still scratching my head about the time stone. Every other stone they knew an exact time and place to go get it. The time stone they were just like "Hey, if we pick the right time, there are three stones in New York City!" but they had no evidence to suggest that. They were hoping that Strange had the stone, hoping he would be in New York at the time, and if either of those were not true their plan totally fails.

But they got lucky and found someone else at the sanctum instead. But they approached the whole thing as part of a solid plan and it kinda wasn't.

Oh well. With a movie as great as this, I'll overlook that.

[Roundman]

While I agree that leadership is a factor in odins ideal I don't see that is changing very much for Cap, even in the way that you described. For Cap's real Arc is the moral/ethical one about the locus of choice and a skepticism of authority embedded in what you describe. Is his decision making any better in Ultron/Vision? I think not. He suggests that you shouldn't make decisions out of fear and he's partly right about Ultron but type is afraid of the future and science and just wrong about Vision.

You're making a distinction without a difference. We're describing the same growth. I think that growth makes him a better leader in Infinity War than he was in AoU. If he was not quite worthy in AoU but worthy by Endgame, then I'd say it was that growth that made him worthy to wield Mjolnir. I don't think that's "fanservice" (which is an overused term these days). It's a reasonable conclusion to a character arc laid out over several movies.

[Grey]

I think its because some people need some levity so it doesn't become too overbearingly depressing for them. The movie could be accused of taking itself "too seriously" for a comic book movie.

I actually would've preferred the movie be a bit more serious myself but I don't mind personally.

Monotone tends to result in ineffective drama. Even HAMLET and MACBETH were leavened with moments of humor.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I totally get the need for humor- there’s a difference though, to me, between having comic relief and “all I can think About was how funny the movie was” - a sentiment I’ve heard from more than one viewer.

To each his own, my “own” is just not that, though.

[Grey]

Not that I expect it will be touched on much but would anyone besides me be interested in the societal effectsafter the events of Endgame as the people who returned try to return to their lives. It was five years for those left behind and all will have moved on with their lives.

Some will have remarried and had kids with new partners and now their old spouses are back with no time elapsed for them.

People returning will have lost their jobs, families, homes, etc in many cases and those left behind may not be so welcoming of them being back.

Perhaps the only thing more destructive than losing half the population of the world is that half suddenly reappearing 5 years later.

Yes, these are the kinds of consequences I want to see.

You know I was thinking earlier that most recent superhero movies that ive seen have started failing to show us how badly regular people are effected from al of the events going on. I think back to my more favorite superhero movies and recall that scenes with normal humans suffering, or at least reacting to, the villains’ work to be an important aspect of the experience.

When I think of a lot of modern superhero movies we really just stick with the heros the whole time and in a way I think this is a disservice. It makes the conflict seem a lot less important.

[cc008]

So cap is old. Why not use the time machine to make him younger like they did ant-man?

Seemed more like a personal choice rather than what happened to Ant-Man.