Avengers: Endgame Spoilers

[JKtheMac]

I don't think the five year gap messes things up. I think it opens up a lot of story possibilities for other movies to address and it's ripe for supplementary material.

That’s because you are looking at it the way a writer would. Seeing the options it presents. Seeing the questions it raises as potential stories not as a frustrating lack of detail. This is why I have trust in how they will handle these things. Trust based on eleven years of a relatively steady ship. Not always a perfect course but we got here and we have come a long way. Something nobody else has been able to do so far apart from perhaps Harry Potter.

[JKtheMac]

Carol was about the same level as Stormbreaker Thor you know the guy who jump into a star and nearly killed Thanos with one hit. The Thor in endgame was out shape and implied weaker than before which was one of the reason he wasn't obvious choice to put on gauntlet. People are slight exaggerating how powerful Captain marvel is you are not going to need Thanos level threats to stop her. But you will need upper echelon strength characters to face against her so Hulk,Thor, Thanos,Juggernaut, Gladiator,Hyperion,etc

Exactly. I rewatched Infinity War just before my second viewing and Thor was pretty much tougher than anything else we have ever seen in the MCU. Perhaps even Thanos in his own way. The ‘should have gone for the head’ line was pretty much a knowing acknowledgment of this. Thor knows it too. He could have killed him and stopped it.

The standoff with Thor and Captain Marvel was also the writers letting us know these two characters are on an approximate level IMO. Perhaps even a knowing nod to the fact that Thor was originally written as a Fawcett Captain Marvel analog. They are genetic cousins in the comic book family tree.

[Frobisher]

I’m sure this is not going to happen, but wouldn’t it be amazing if the Loki series had Timecop Steve chasing Loki around the galaxy trying to get the Tesseract back and restore the timeline?

[Gaastra]

There are cities and civilizations in the Quantum realm. We see a city in the background when Hank finds Janet.

That is micron city home of the micronauts where wasp spent a year at in the comics.

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[Xheight]

I love what Kevin Smith said about fan service in his review for Endgame. Once you start doing sequels it's not about the art anymore it's about fan Service. Doesnt mean they cant be well made and done very artistically but it's all about fan Service at that point. I see nothing wrong with fan service if it's done well.

There is plenty wrong with Fan-service and coming from K. Smith what would I expect but oversimplified truisms standing in for thoughtful nuance.

Firstly, Fan Service, in its most recognized form, is a derailing of verisimilitude and consistency of a story to stroke the feelings of said fans to a heightened state arousal. To call all fictional reality "fan-service" is just an attempt to give license to do whatever one pleases and grossly distorts the difference between a fan and someone who simply liked the story that proceeded it - i'm looking at you Kevin. Rather than world build in a elaborating manner such stroking goes to the fantastical pleasure of the fan foremost, thus we have fan-fic. What was Empire strikes Back? Fan service? Please.

The first two acts here in Endgame build on the story of the missing, the grief of the characters and it's impact and by act 2 the plan to get back...
All of it building out the world not getting fans off on their fantasy of why their fav is the bestest best. How many fans went booyah of Thor in near tears and killing Thanos out of frustration?

[Gaastra]

You know with cap and peggy married that would be a great way to bring in American dream. Marvel makes a Halloween costume of her every year at least they could use her in something. Why is she not in the marvel rising cartoon? Maybe set up a champions movie?

[Immortal Weapon]

That’s because you are looking at it the way a writer would. Seeing the options it presents. Seeing the questions it raises as potential stories not as a frustrating lack of detail. This is why I have trust in how they will handle these things. Trust based on eleven years of a relatively steady ship. Not always a perfect course but we got here and we have come a long way. Something nobody else has been able to do so far apart from perhaps Harry Potter.

The five year gap is a creative playground for the MCU. I'm interested to see how future projects will take advantage of it. Black Widow conference call alluded to the political, social and economic collapse all over the universe. I can imagine quite a few doomsday cults emerging post snap. The snap can easily lead to the creation of the MCU version of the universal church of truth.

[Hypestyle]

A stunt I would have loved to see: Hulk does a super-leap, aided by Strange, Wong, (or whoever else that can create tele-portals) reaches near-orbit, then falls back down to Earth, gaining momentum, and of course, Hulk can survive re-entry, but then when he’s near impact, he gets teleported right on top of Thanos.
Heh.
Could have been great.

You know with cap and peggy married that would be a great way to bring in American dream. Marvel makes a Halloween costume of her every year at least they could use her in something. Why is she not in the marvel rising cartoon? Maybe set up a champions movie?

how old would she be since Steve and Peggy were married in the distant past? Would she be his granddaughter, then?

[sunofdarkchild]

I wonder what Agents of Shield is going to do with Endgame. Will they also have a 5-year jump forward? Will they say that Coulson got snapped and then came back healthy?

[djk61387]

Just thinking that if they wanted to now they could use this to bring Miles into the MCU.

Also. I have no idea what they're planning on for her movie, and I was sad she wasn't in the end fight in Endgame, but am I the only one who thinks that Black Widow came back? I mean it did just happen in the comics not to long ago (although I'll admit it's not quite the same and I'm not the biggest fan of how they did it), but Banner or Tony could have brought her back when they snapped. Just cause she wasn't in the fight at the end doesn't mean that she isn't back.

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

So...am I the only person who didn't like this movie much? There were a few moments that I loved, but those came after two and a half hours of the most boring, drawn out, nonsensical and self-indulgent hours of film I've ever seen.

And the time travel in this movie, which takes up the vast majority of the runtime, is constructed in a way that removes any and all tension from the proceedings.

Worried about changing the past? Don't worry, you can do whatever you want because there are no consequences...for us. Who cares how many alternate realities we screw over in the meantime (until Tilda Swinton slapped Bruce in the face with perspective).

Only have enough Pym particles for one trip each? It's OK: Tony magically knows when and where to get some more even though it's never explained and isn't even remotely plausible for him to know since he wasn't even born yet in said time period. It's not even another nauseating reference to an earlier film like all the other time jaunts. It's just a lazy plot contrivance so that Tony can have his daddy moment, despite him already having that in Iron Man 2.

Even then, the "rules" that they throw out toward the beginning are thrown out at the end of the movie when old Steve is somehow in the main timeline despite the fact that him staying in the past would've created an alternate timeline based on the f-ing rules they already established. And we know he wasn't there because he would've been there in the f-ing hospital with Peggy during Winter Soldier: we also saw pictures of her husband, and it ain't Steve.

I could go on, but I can't put into words how underwhelming this movie was. Easily the worst of the four Avengers movies, and probably one of my least favorites in the entire MCU.

So people don't think I'm purely hating on the movie, here are some things I genuinely loved about it:

• Tilda Swinton
• Rocket Raccoon (he was genuinely good here)
• Captain America with Mjolnir
• Sam Wilson getting the shield (even though him having it is an f-ing paradox and nonsensical since it was broken in the final battle. The only reason could be that he had T'Challa make a new one, but that's never stated or implied)
• Avengers Assemble (even though I think he should've shouted "Assemble" instead of saying it under his breath)

Unfortunately, that's not even remotely enough to make me wanna sit through this thing again, and that's too bad, considering how much I love Infinity War. Guess I'm checking outta the MCU until the X-Men show up.

[Gaastra]

By the way, our showing had this in the parking lot. Guess someone was having ghost troubles! They had a toy slimmer in the backseat also! They even have a new York plate!

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[Comic-Reader Lad]

So...am I the only person who didn't like this movie much? There were a few moments that I loved, but those came after two and a half hours of the most boring, drawn out, nonsensical and self-indulgent hours of film I've ever seen.


Unfortunately, that's not even remotely enough to make me wanna sit through this thing again, and that's too bad, considering how much I love Infinity War. Guess I'm checking outta the MCU until the X-Men show up.

I think your criticisms of the movie are quite valid. I had some of them myself. I think A LOT of people are dubious about the way time travel was presented.

For me, the biggest complaint I had was that the movie did feel long. A lot of setup and moments that were meant to be big and profound didn't quite land that way for me.

But, overall I did like the movie because it gave the original stars lots of screen time to wrap up their characters. There were also lots of moments that DID land properly.

Definitely a major part of the movie is the communal aspect that we are all sharing this decade-long journey and now it is coming to an end.

How future generations will look back on all of it is another story, but I do think that overall the MCU is basically this generation's Star Wars -- a creative work that overall will have "legendary" status and will be handed down from generation to generation for decades to come.

I think what's even more promising is that because Marvel has so many characters, new generations of fans can be created featuring new characters without having to redo what's already been done. And that will make future generations curious as to how it all started.

By the time we're old and about to croak, there could be 50+ Marvel movies to look back on, and that achievement alone will plaster over any duds or plot holes in any individual movie.

But, yes, looking at this movie in and of itself without the larger MCU franchise to buoy it, there are definitely things worth critiquing. But that's the case with pretty much any movie.

[Immortal Weapon]

Just thinking that if they wanted to now they could use this to bring Miles into the MCU.

Also. I have no idea what they're planning on for her movie, and I was sad she wasn't in the end fight in Endgame, but am I the only one who thinks that Black Widow came back? I mean it did just happen in the comics not to long ago (although I'll admit it's not quite the same and I'm not the biggest fan of how they did it), but Banner or Tony could have brought her back when they snapped. Just cause she wasn't in the fight at the end doesn't mean that she isn't back.

The movie addressed it. Bruce told Cap that he tried to bring Widow back with his snap and it didn't work. Leads me to believe that sacrifices made for the soul stone are exempt.

[Xheight]

So...am I the only person who didn't like this movie much? There were a few moments that I loved, but those came after two and a half hours of the most boring, drawn out, nonsensical and self-indulgent hours of film I've ever seen.

And the time travel in this movie, which takes up the vast majority of the runtime, is constructed in a way that removes any and all tension from the proceedings.

Worried about changing the past? Don't worry, you can do whatever you want because there are no consequences...for us. Who cares how many alternate realities we screw over in the meantime (until Tilda Swinton slapped Bruce in the face with perspective).

Only have enough Pym particles for one trip each? It's OK: Tony magically knows when and where to get some more even though it's never explained and isn't even remotely plausible for him to know since he wasn't even born yet in said time period. It's not even another nauseating reference to an earlier film like all the other time jaunts. It's just a lazy plot contrivance so that Tony can have his daddy moment, despite him already having that in Iron Man 2.

I have issue big issue too with the Greatness of this film too but not the first two acts if you will but the wrap-up and fan service of the third. Here is why: Nice to have a Time Travel story that does not erase what happened emotionally or corrects the way it was supposed to be. That is what the "rules" are supposed to address - **** happens but heroes find a way to deal with it and make the world a better place. And yes you are right Tony did get a dad moment in IM2 but it is tucked in here to give the audience the idea that his greatest creation is not the arc reactor but his child and the peace that his legacy is secure. Maybe i remember it wrong but i didn't assume that the limited pym particles came from Tony but from Scott from what he could find.

Even then, the "rules" that they throw out toward the beginning are thrown out at the end of the movie when old Steve is somehow in the main timeline despite the fact that him staying in the past would've created an alternate timeline based on the f-ing rules they already established. And we know he wasn't there because he would've been there in the f-ing hospital with Peggy during Winter Soldier: we also saw pictures of her husband, and it ain't Steve.

I could go on, but I can't put into words how underwhelming this movie was. Easily the worst of the four Avengers movies, and probably one of my least favorites in the entire MCU.

yeah, don't disagree here because they do want to have their cake and eat it too. Which is just not what I think of as Captain America as being of all the heroes. I would not put it fourth though Ulton holds that spot as rigging the chess board for Civil War and not much else IMHO.

So people don't think I'm purely hating on the movie, here are some things I genuinely loved about it:

• Tilda Swinton
• Rocket Raccoon (he was genuinely good here)
• Captain America with Mjolnir
• Sam Wilson getting the shield (even though him having it is an f-ing paradox and nonsensical since it was broken in the final battle. The only reason could be that he had T'Challa make a new one, but that's never stated or implied)
• Avengers Assemble (even though I think he should've shouted "Assemble" instead of saying it under his breath)

Unfortunately, that's not even remotely enough to make me wanna sit through this thing again, and that's too bad, considering how much I love Infinity War. Guess I'm checking outta the MCU until the X-Men show up.

with you on most of these too except[*]Captain America with Mjolnir and you can see my reason why in this thread. Wished they found a better way to pass on the mantle to Falcon as much as I like the idea.