Newsweek’s deep dive into Spider-Man lore

[HypnoHustler]

Reign is on multiple best of lists, so by some metrics, it is objectively considered pretty good.

https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/...ider-man-reign

https://www.cbr.com/50-greatest-spid...s-master-list/

I think 'Reign' gets way too much hate. Yes, t's a bit of a DKR rip-off, but too much is made of the "bodily fluids killing MJ" scene, which I'm also not a fan of (many comics tried too hard to be "mature" in the early to mid 2000s). But if you can put that aside (and you should... it's only one scene in a 4 issue mini), it still has some great moments like Doc Ock's corpse being controlled by his arms, the Venom symbiote infecting huge swathes of New York, callbacks to old villains like my favorite lame 70s bad guy Hypno Hustler, and some gorgeous art to boot. It actually got initially good reviews upon release. It only became trendy to hate it in the years since. I don't think it's an A+, but to me it's a solid B. I don't defend it much these days, because someone always attacks me and tells me how wrong I am blah blah blah (which I'm sure will happen with this post too) which gets really tiring as the complaints are always the same (it's a DKR rip-off, the "bodily fluids killed MJ" stuff, you see Peter naked in one panel, it tries too hard to be edgy, etc). Enough people agree with me about the clone saga having good parts and Ben and Kaine being great characters, that it's much easier to stand up for those stories. I only feel truly alone when I try to say 'Reign' isn't as bad as most people make it out to be. You want a bad mini from the 00s? Read 'Get Kraven.'

[WebSlingWonder]

Spider-Man is one of those heroes whose future works best when it's balanced, not excessively bleak or happy.

Spider-Girl gets it right. Peter has his share of tragedy and triumph. He loses his leg and his heroic identity, but it's an opportunity for him to raise a family full-time and work for the police department. And his greatest accomplishment--raising a daughter with strong values--brings him joy and stress.

J.M. DeMatteis also had a really great take on Peter's future in ASM 700. He raised a family with MJ, eventually retired to be a better father and husband, then MJ passed away in their golden years. He helps his granddaughter raise his great-grandson after the father leaves the picture. So whatever happens, Peter will always have joy and sadness and challenges that he rises to meet.

Was that ASM story "Spider Dreams"? Oh I loved that one. So underrated.

[Miles To Go]

Was that ASM story "Spider Dreams"? Oh I loved that one. So underrated.

Kind of goes under the radar along with a couple of other Peter/MJ stories written around the 700 mark

[David Walton]

Was that ASM story "Spider Dreams"? Oh I loved that one. So underrated.

That's the one! Such a BRILLIANT story. I love how JMD strings the reader along--is it Peter with jumbled memories, or just a guy trying to impress his great-grandson? Fun over the top concepts like Kraven the Rhino and Col. Daredevil and such a poignant conclusion.

Kind of goes under the radar along with a couple of other Peter/MJ stories written around the 700 mark

Indeed it does! I think Ock killing Peter and taking his body dominated conversations at the time. I think it would be cool if they included "Spider-Dreams" in the collected edition of SPIDER-MAN: LIFE STORY when it's completed. Those stories complement each other thematically.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Indeed it does! I think Ock killing Peter and taking his body dominated conversations at the time. I think it would be cool if they included "Spider-Dreams" in the collected edition of SPIDER-MAN: LIFE STORY when it's completed. Those stories complement each other thematically.

You could do a collection of Spider-Man future chronicles and include it with ASM #439 which had Tom Defalco open with archeologists of the future digging up relics of Spider-Man in the ruins of New York and trying to get a sense of his story and life from his left-over web-shooters which they think was a relic from a final battle but was part of one of many kidnappings and missing kids cases that Peter dealt with. That Guardians comic where Spider-Man is considered the greatest hero and the last one who died and his costume is in some museum somewhere, that slightly contoversial Peter David story in FNSM #5 among others. There are a lot of small stories across Spider titles that try and imagine Peter's future and final fate.

Spider-Dreams was decent but I preferred Lee and Martin's "Identity Crisis" in ASM #600 which is also a meta-commentary on Spider-Man, and is hilarious and darker, and on the whole Marcos Martin > Gisueppe Camuncolli even if Dematteis > Lee. Still the ideas and riffs about memories and merging past and present was nice and affecting and a welcome contrast to the awful Dying Wish story. Dematteis wrote that story without any awareness of Slott's work so it was unintentional for his part.

[David Walton]

You could do a collection of Spider-Man future chronicles and include it with ASM #439 which had Tom Defalco open with archeologists of the future digging up relics of Spider-Man in the ruins of New York and trying to get a sense of his story and life from his left-over web-shooters which they think was a relic from a final battle but was part of one of many kidnappings and missing kids cases that Peter dealt with.

I loved that story!

That Guardians comic where Spider-Man is considered the greatest hero and the last one who died and his costume is in some museum somewhere, that slightly contoversial Peter David story in FNSM #5 among others. There are a lot of small stories across Spider titles that try and imagine Peter's future and final fate.

I haven't read the Guardians one and I vaguely recall the PAD story (I think MJ gave an interview as his widow?). Both fall a bit too far on the bleak side for my tastes. I don't see Peter dying a horrible death or achieving too much material success. I can still enjoy them, though. PAD's always worth a read!

Spider-Dreams was decent but I preferred Lee and Martin's "Identity Crisis" in ASM #600 which is also a meta-commentary on Spider-Man, and is hilarious and darker, and on the whole Marcos Martin > Gisueppe Camuncolli even if Dematteis > Lee. Still the ideas and riffs about memories and merging past and present was nice and affecting and a welcome contrast to the awful Dying Wish story. Dematteis wrote that story without any awareness of Slott's work so it was unintentional for his part.

I only vaguely recall the one from ASM #600. Seems like it was funny but not as much a complete story as a riff on how crazy Spider-Man's life has been.

It is interesting that we got a story featuring an older Peter in the same issue where he was 'definitively' killed off.

[WebSlingWonder]

You could do a collection of Spider-Man future chronicles and include it with ASM #439 which had Tom Defalco open with archeologists of the future digging up relics of Spider-Man in the ruins of New York and trying to get a sense of his story and life from his left-over web-shooters which they think was a relic from a final battle but was part of one of many kidnappings and missing kids cases that Peter dealt with. That Guardians comic where Spider-Man is considered the greatest hero and the last one who died and his costume is in some museum somewhere, that slightly contoversial Peter David story in FNSM #5 among others. There are a lot of small stories across Spider titles that try and imagine Peter's future and final fate.

Spider-Dreams was decent but I preferred Lee and Martin's "Identity Crisis" in ASM #600 which is also a meta-commentary on Spider-Man, and is hilarious and darker, and on the whole Marcos Martin > Gisueppe Camuncolli even if Dematteis > Lee. Still the ideas and riffs about memories and merging past and present was nice and affecting and a welcome contrast to the awful Dying Wish story. Dematteis wrote that story without any awareness of Slott's work so it was unintentional for his part.

Hold up, hold up....did you put DeMatteis over Lee?!

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Hold up, hold up....did you put DeMatteis over Lee?!

Dematteis writes and plots his stuff which puts him one over Stan the Man who mostly did the dialogues. Dematteis has also been generally consistent across a longer period of time than Lee was.

I put a lot of people over Stan Lee as a writer. Lee's important as an editor/publicist and his sense of dialogue and personality was important when he collaborated with Kirby and Ditko, but as a writer by himself he was mixed and all over the map.

[WebSlingWonder]

Dematteis writes and plots his stuff which puts him one over Stan the Man who mostly did the dialogues. Dematteis has also been generally consistent across a longer period of time than Lee was.

I put a lot of people over Stan Lee as a writer. Lee's important as an editor/publicist and his sense of dialogue and personality was important when he collaborated with Kirby and Ditko, but as a writer by himself he was mixed and all over the map.

Alright then. I'll let someone else speak to that...

[boots]

Dematteis writes and plots his stuff which puts him one over Stan the Man who mostly did the dialogues. Dematteis has also been generally consistent across a longer period of time than Lee was.

I put a lot of people over Stan Lee as a writer. Lee's important as an editor/publicist and his sense of dialogue and personality was important when he collaborated with Kirby and Ditko, but as a writer by himself he was mixed and all over the map.

i’m generally on the same page with stan.

[Celgress]

And that alone shows me why critics are never worth listening to.

I couldn't have put it better myself lol, although I would say some rather than all.