Age of X-Man: The X-Tremists #3 (spoilers/discussion)

[BroHomo]

It was affecting and a really good look at the state the body-swapping and blurring of self has left Betsy in (and Nate's brainwashing *cannot* be helping there). But there is still a creepy, body-snatcher undercurrent to the notion of "I never did like my body, but the one I was using was beautiful", and I don't think it's something Williams is writing unawares.

You're right but that's such a bizarre thing to say/lived through (Body swapping) I totally missed it

[Silver Fang]

Fred turning around because of this event would be good because it makes him more interesting and he's not even a good villain anyway. Something gained, nothing lost.

This was true about Creed too, word for word. Yet they still did a villain-reset on him so he can be the MU's bitch again rather than a character with some actual character. Lol

They wasted a good chance there. So they don't need to have Blob stick around either. It's even more insulting. We already got Juggernaut with the X-Men again.

[Killerbee911]

This was true about Creed too, word for word. Yet they still did a villain-reset on him so he can be the MU's bitch again rather than a character with some actual character. Lol

They wasted a good chance there. So they don't need to have Blob stick around either. It's even more insulting. We already got Juggernaut with the X-Men again.

Yeah that is was not true about Creed in the same way Sabertooth is psychopathic killer, Blob and Juggernaut are basically blue collar criminals. Among his many crimes Sabertooth pretended to be mind wiped manipulate Boom Boom and nearly killed Psylocke. Sabertooth as hero is interesting but there is always an underline this bastard should be rotting in prison as well. Sabertooth is basically unredeemable which fine because that makes for hero who always have to prove he is hero to make for what he has done. On some levels you can say the same about Magneto but at least well written Magneto generally has the justification of a greater good for mutants behind his actions and they have work to recton some of his more crazy actions.

Sabertooth isn't just a character you can flip into a hero without complications and baggage, and even as "hero" he is Wolverine/Punisher/Deadpool style hero and that you can question if they are even heroes. The point is misunderstood Blob and controlled somewhat by upper level evil entity Juggernaut. Isn't the same as Mr."Kill innocent people for pleasure" Sabertooth. I get you are big Sabertooth fan but it is not the same thing.

[Silver Fang]

Yeah that is was not true about Creed in the same way Sabertooth is psychopathic killer, Blob and Juggernaut are basically blue collar criminals. Among his many crimes Sabertooth pretended to be mind wiped manipulate Boom Boom and nearly killed Psylocke. Sabertooth as hero is interesting but there is always an underline this bastard should be rotting in prison as well. Sabertooth is basically unredeemable which fine because that makes for hero who always have to prove he is hero to make for what he has done. On some levels you can say the same about Magneto but at least well written Magneto generally has the justification of a greater good for mutants behind his actions and they have work to recton some of his more crazy actions.

Sabertooth isn't just a character you can flip into a hero without complications and baggage, and even as "hero" he is Wolverine/Punisher/Deadpool style hero and that you can question if they are even heroes. The point is misunderstood Blob and controlled somewhat by upper level evil entity Juggernaut. Isn't the same as Mr."Kill innocent people for pleasure" Sabertooth. I get you are big Sabertooth fan but it is not the same thing.

Sabretooth has been a low level nuisance & joke villain since 2003 .Heroes treat him as an annoyance rather than a threat. He's Wolverine's punching bag. Arch Nemesis isn't even a title he deserves anymore. The Joker may be an arch foe to Batman. Far as I know, he's remained a threat, and he gets to have his OWN film that has nothing to do with Batman. Creed has had 2 crappy film cameos, depicted as second rate, and had an Origins comic in 2009 that was about Wolverine. lol

Creed is a D-level baddie who has gotten very little respect as villain from the X-Office. And makes him undeserving of any from fans as well. He's a Wolverine accessory.

As a fan of formerly badass (mostly) late 80's to 2002 Creed, those days are dead. Imo, he has nothing to offer as a villain anymore. Besides getting his ass beat. If you hate Creed, then that's fun & good. But it leaves nothing for his fans. The man he's supposed to be a so-called arch nemesis of has dismissed him as a non-threat. And outright says that he bores him.
Lecture-2.jpg
Not the way ya speak to a villain who had any kind of major effect or impact. His relation with Wolverine has even been changed. Rather than being Logan's moral opposite & dark reflection, he's depicted as his loser opposite.

*If Wolverine is smart, Creed is stupid.
*If Wolverine is dangerous, Creed is a punk.
*If Wolverine is effective, Creed is a bafoon.
*If Wolverine is movie-star hot, Creed looks like the crypt keeper.
*Wolverine has a different girlfriend 4x every solo. Creed's got Mystique, who abuses him.
*Rather than nearly killing him on his birthday, he just shows up & annoys him every year.
*And instead of leaving him alive just to spite him, it's done because he's too much of a coward to kill him. etc.

From a story & fan stand-point, he was better as a more rough anti-hero who could have some genuinely good story arcs. And he's more deserving of them than Blob. lol Unless his stock is even lower than I thought. In which case, he needs to get killed off. Just to it better than Loeb.

Angelus was the most evil vampire on Buffy who manipulated, raped, harassed, and did every evil thing imaginable. And it was a good story to watch Angel redeem himself. Even though Angelus was a top dog vamp, he (like Creed) could've become a joke or watered-down d-lister if he was used too often. Angelus was a good occasional foe, but he never overstayed his welcome. Imo, Villain Creed has very much overstayed his, if he's only gonna show up as a caricature & get jobbed. A hero with complications & baggage is much more interesting & enjoyable than what we were getting from him as a villain post-Chuck Austen.

Rosenberg mentioned him twice in two interviews, and in both cases, Creed is sounding as one-note & uninteresting as ever. Punisher, Deadpool, and Wolverine are all popular & interesting. Villain Creed is not. Anymore.

So I do have to agree with that similar to Blob, Creed is a joke villain, and becoming an anti-hero left everything to be gained & nothing of value lost. Least for many of his fans.

As a villain, this is all Creed is about.
https://shydaydreamer28.tumblr.com/p...again-come-may
It's been that way for ages. And I don't' see it changing.

[cranger]

Tell that to Frenzy who was inspired by the person that she was in Age of X and joined the X-Men as a result. It’s not about finding some hidden side of themselves but knowing they can be better than who they are now. The X-Men are brainwashed currently but I doubt they leave this without some kind of realization about themselves.

That did not make Frenzy "good at heart" and no amount of examples of villains changing their stripes will ever prove Blob is "good at heart," because he is not.

[Kurolegacy]

That did not make Frenzy "good at heart" and no amount of examples of villains changing their stripes will ever prove Blob is "good at heart," because he is not.

I specifically said good at heart here as in in the Age of X-Man. If he can come to be inspired by his memories of Age of X-Man to be a better person once they’re back in 616 then good.

[CGAR]

So I dont like or dislike Sabretooth. He's kind of just there. And I don't really care what writers do with him.

But hasnt he always been known as a rapist and murderer? And this is coming from someone who is not knowledgeable of him as a character. Why woiuld we want him to be a hero or be an X-Man? Is it because of AoA that people think he can be a hero?

I can see Blob turning good ish after his experience with AoX-Man and it would be more realistic to me than Sabretooth being a good guy. Can someone elaborate on this?

[Glio]

I do not know, it seemed to me in Uncanny X-Force that Sabretooth was very threatening.

He managed to break Logan more than at any time in his life.

[Silver Fang]

So I dont like or dislike Sabretooth. He's kind of just there. And I don't really care what writers do with him.

But hasnt he always been known as a rapist and murderer? And this is coming from someone who is not knowledgeable of him as a character. Why woiuld we want him to be a hero or be an X-Man? Is it because of AoA that people think he can be a hero?

I can see Blob turning good ish after his experience with AoX-Man and it would be more realistic to me than Sabretooth being a good guy. Can someone elaborate on this?

Deadpool is a murderer. lol He's confessed to killing people who annoy him. So if he can be seen as an anti-hero, then people's standards can't be the highest. Note, I am also a fan of anti-hero Deadpool or just straight up merc-DP. But lets be honest. lol Wolverine isn't much better. Apparently Daniel Way made some revisions to his history where he was just as disgusting as Creed. Mystique & Daken are rapists. But get accepted as anti-heroes.

Creed being a rapist depends on the day of the week. lol Just like his intelligence, or lack of. It was thought he raped & killed Silver Fox. But she showed up alive working for Hydra in the 90's. Then his being a rapist seemed to be non-existent after that, until Loeb came in & started retconning. lol Honestly, most Wolverine & Sabretooth fans try to ignore his run.

Far as AoA Creed, him as a hero makes as much sense as 616 Creed. During his intro he states he had his fill killing women & children. Doesn't sound like a good man. He then worked for Apocalypse and helped bring the destruction the world. Then when Apo dumped him, he joined the X-Men just to save his ass so he could get revenge. Now all of a sudden he's a hero of justice adopting children. AoA Creed can sound just as contrived as 616 Creed being a hero if ya really look at it. lol

But in any case, no point in redemption stories when they all seem to just get reset after a brief period. It happened with Juggernaut, who's now back on the side of good. Emma & Magneto are dangling by threads. And Creed's reversion that may or may not have any repercussions. Given Rosenberg's comments, I am thinking not.

[CGAR]

Deadpool is a murderer. lol He's confessed to killing people who annoy him. So if he can be seen as an anti-hero, then people's standards can't be the highest. Note, I am also a fan of anti-hero Deadpool or just straight up merc-DP. But lets be honest. lol Wolverine isn't much better. Apparently Daniel Way made some revisions to his history where he was just as disgusting as Creed. lol

Mystique & Daken are rapists. But get accepted as anti-heroes & shipped with decent people. Destiny / Iceman.

Far as him being a rapist, that depends on the day of the week. lol Just like his intelligence, or lack of. It was thought he raped & killed Silver Fox. But she showed up alive working for Hydra in the 90's.

And to be honest AoA Creed as a hero makes as much sense as 616 Creed. He was a murderer & serial killer before he randomly reformed. During his intro he states he had his fill killing women & children. Doesn't sound like a good man. He then worked for Apocalypse and helped bring the destruction the world. Then when Apo dumped him, he just joined the X-Men to save his ass & get revenge. Now all of a sudden he's a hero of justice adopting children. AoA Creed can sound just as contrived as 616 Creed being a hero if ya really look at it. lol

All valid points. Especially when you bring up Mystique, Daken, and Deadpool.

[Triniking1234]

Good read. The scene with Blob and Psylocke in the middle was good but I kinda glazed over it. Also Moneta gets her comeuppance.

"Pass a message to Betsy for me, JP"
"Nein"

7/10

[Silver Fang]

Good read. The scene with Blob and Psylocke in the middle was good but I kinda glazed over it. Also Moneta gets her comeuppance.

"Pass a message to Betsy for me, JP"
"Nein"

7/10

Then to cement her non-likability, she learns nothing, feels she did the right thing, and becomes even more annoying for the last issues. If possible. lol

[sungila]

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[Havok83]

Deadpool is a murderer. lol He's confessed to killing people who annoy him. So if he can be seen as an anti-hero, then people's standards can't be the highest. Note, I am also a fan of anti-hero Deadpool or just straight up merc-DP. But lets be honest. lol Wolverine isn't much better. Apparently Daniel Way made some revisions to his history where he was just as disgusting as Creed. Mystique & Daken are rapists. But get accepted as anti-heroes.

Creed being a rapist depends on the day of the week. lol Just like his intelligence, or lack of. It was thought he raped & killed Silver Fox. But she showed up alive working for Hydra in the 90's. Then his being a rapist seemed to be non-existent after that, until Loeb came in & started retconning. lol Honestly, most Wolverine & Sabretooth fans try to ignore his run.

Far as AoA Creed, him as a hero makes as much sense as 616 Creed. During his intro he states he had his fill killing women & children. Doesn't sound like a good man. He then worked for Apocalypse and helped bring the destruction the world. Then when Apo dumped him, he joined the X-Men just to save his ass so he could get revenge. Now all of a sudden he's a hero of justice adopting children. AoA Creed can sound just as contrived as 616 Creed being a hero if ya really look at it. lol

But in any case, no point in redemption stories when they all seem to just get reset after a brief period. It happened with Juggernaut, who's now back on the side of good. Emma & Magneto are dangling by threads. And Creed's reversion that may or may not have any repercussions. Given Rosenberg's comments, I am thinking not.

The inversion is the only reason why Creed was ever accepted as an X-man. He truly is an evil character and all other attempts to have him as a member or even an ally ended in disaster as he did not exhibit any capacity for redemption. All characters have a past and many have done questionable things but the difference between Creed and other reformed villians is remorse and working towards being better individuals. That was not him before he had a magical spell change his moral allignment. He reveled in the murder and devastation he caused as it was an active core of whom he presently was. I didnt read Weapon X so I cant comment on him now, but I fully acknowledge that if it wasnt for AXIS, he'd be in the pile of irredeemable villians that shouldnt be trusted to ever be near the X-men.

[Silver Fang]

The inversion is the only reason why Creed was ever accepted as an X-man. He truly is an evil character and all other attempts to have him as a member or even an ally ended in disaster as he did not exhibit any capacity for redemption. All characters have a past and many have done questionable things but the difference between Creed and other reformed villians is remorse and working towards being better individuals. That was not him before he had a magical spell change his moral allignment. He reveled in the murder and devastation he caused as it was an active core of whom he presently was. I didnt read Weapon X so I cant comment on him now, but I fully acknowledge that if it wasnt for AXIS, he'd be in the pile of irredeemable villians that shouldnt be trusted to ever be near the X-men.

Where is the remorse from Mystique & Daken for all their murder & rape? lol They regret nothing, yet get pardoned as anti-heroes. Mystique had a one-shot recently about what a pile a crap she is. Yet she's an anti-hero who everyone wants to have loving relationships and / or get Destiny back. Then again, I wouldn't be opposed to her getting Destiny back. Anything to keep her away from Creed. She's also ruined him in the last decade.

The inversion for Creed had tons more potential and made for longer story, and possibly even internal struggle as it wears off with his good & evil coming into conflict with one another. And it could have even made for a genuine organic change as time wore on. Hell if Orochimaru can become a hero, Creed is not out of the question. lol

But once again, that potential got axed when Pak got hold of him & used him as the team butt-monkey while ignoring all Bunn's work. Then he had to change narratives when he had Mary Su Logan & Warpath snatched from him. lol Then Creed's reverted for the sake of making him a lame, one-note pussified, punching-bag, d-lister villain again. Yippie. Be one thing if we were getting the good villain version of him like the 90's. But somehow I doubt that's gonna be the case.