Trans Panic & other issues arising from Uncanny X-Men #17

[Askani's Flame]

As mentioned in the review thread, and additionally with some of my queer peers, there is a lot to unpack around the violence and death of Rahne Sinclair. In particular the direct narrative that comes from real stories around the murder of trans women on a daily basis. For those who don't know what I'm referencing, Snoop brought forth this article which should provide context to this discussion:

https://www.comicsbeat.com/uncanny-x...-panic-murder/

So let's grab some tea and have a discussion about how you feel about this issue and the parallels to trans violence and murder, and whether this was the appropriate means or telling of such a tale.

Note: If you have something horribly bigoted to say, don't bring it here. I'm looking to have a civil and honest discourse about a touchy topic. And on the other side, if someone says something that comes from a lack of knowledge, educate don't eviscerate. I'm not a scholar on this subject and neither may be someone else, help them understand your point of view without attacking or insulting

Now, I don't agree with the idea of Logan being transmasculine (as I haven't unpacked it yet) but I do agree with many of the points brought up by the author of this article. It's trans panic murder. Which before that was the gay panic murder. It's something that should not have been used at the muse for Rahne's death in my opinion.

What say you?

[MichaelC]

I think you have to give writers the right to use metaphors as metaphors, otherwise you end up with the kind of suffocation that this SNL skit mocks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYSbk_tTsjk

[RachelGrey]

I can see some parallels for how Rahne died, it did play out that way, 4 boys see a hot girl sitting on a bench and start trying to pressure her to come with them, then they find out she isn't what she seems (mutant/trans) and become disgusted and then they bash/kill her even when she doesn't fight back. I do see the parallels and the same sense of tragedy I would feel from reading about someone being murdered this way in the real world.

I think my only comment about this is that Uncanny is really starting to truly depress me. First Blindfold's death, and now Rahne's, I feel like everything is so hopeless and bleak. Maybe that's the way it is supposed to be during the Age of X-Man, without the X-Men to stand up for the mutant race everything has become as hopeless and bleak as possible. It's just incredibly depressing.

[Omega Alpha]

I don't agree with everything that was written (specially the way some people still insist that every single female member of the New Mutants. plus Kitty and Rachel, is a lesbian, plus throw Storm in there too because why not), but overall it's a pretty good piece. It was a stupid, ham-fisted thing that would probably never pass if it had been shown to any actual trans person, or even any person that wasn't a straight WASP from North America, before publication.

[Huntsman Spider]

I don't agree with everything that was written (specially the way some people still insist that every single female member of the New Mutants. plus Kitty and Rachel, is a lesbian, plus throw Storm in there too because why not), but overall it's a pretty good piece. It was a stupid, ham-fisted thing that would probably never pass if it had been shown to any actual trans person, or even any person that wasn't a straight WASP from North America, before publication.

Pretty much this, which really says more about the continued lack of representation in mainstream/popular media and culture than anything else. Where there is a void of understanding, knowledge, and --- dare I say --- empathy, ignorance is allowed to fester and becomes something truly toxic. Case in point.

[Askani's Flame]

I think you have to give writers the right to use metaphors as metaphors, otherwise you end up with the kind of suffocation that this SNL skit mocks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYSbk_tTsjk

I'm not saying that writers aren't allowed, nor shouldn't be allowed, to use metaphors. I guess it's down to the delivery and it's reception. The X-Men are one big metaphor, right? So throughout their history things have been brought into the comic as a metaphor or parallel to things happening IRL. For me though, I don't think this was executed well. Partly because we have NO lead up to Rahne being this passive and depressed, and I would have preferred that it be done peppered throughout an issue leading to the moment vs what we got. I don't think the use of Kwannon showing us what happened was the right vehicle to do Rosenberg's use of trans panic murder to kill Rahne. It would have resonated more if we got that at the end of last week's comic. Like you have what's happening with the X-Men, and these side page snippets of the events happening to Rahne. Again, these are my thoughts and feelings and I don't expect everyone to share them.

[baltiroo]

Not quite sure it feels quite like trans panic, but I can see how/why someone would think that. I do believe that comics can teach and explore the ideas behind such thoughts and actions. The way I first read God Loves, Man Kills gives a very similar feeling to Rahne's death. The execution of the idea left lots to be desired, but perhaps this is a teachable moment about toxic masculinity, transphobia and homophobia as well. The fear is there and the unknown is as well so the scene is very visceral in that regards. I think the reason it was so jarring and so WTF was because it really was out of the blue. We've seen nothing of Rahne's POV up to this point, so this sudden desire to live a normal life (and yes I know she has tried to do that before - at the end of X-Factor) comes in one single panel. The next thing is Dani screaming that Rahne's dead. And I just don't get Kwannen and why she is here at all. Mystery for mystery sake doesn't work anymore - it's not the 90s!

[Omega Alpha]

Pretty much this, which really says more about the continued lack of representation in mainstream/popular media and culture than anything else. Where there is a void of understanding, knowledge, and --- dare I say --- empathy, ignorance is allowed to fester and becomes something truly toxic. Case in point.

Yep, and it's sad that the X-men have been read worldwide for decades- and indeed, they begun that when they had a team to represent the entire world- but all we ever had writing and editing them were white American males (and probably straight too), with one or two white male Brits here and there (Louise Simonson being a rare exception, Kelly Thompson more recently another).

[RachelGrey]

I don't agree with everything that was written (specially the way some people still insist that every single female member of the New Mutants. plus Kitty and Rachel, is a lesbian, plus throw Storm in there too because why not), but overall it's a pretty good piece. It was a stupid, ham-fisted thing that would probably never pass if it had been shown to any actual trans person, or even any person that wasn't a straight WASP from North America, before publication.

That's an interesting perspective. Marvel can get away with brutalizing mutants for the sake of story, but if they portrayed these same tragedies directly happening to a person of color or a member of the LGBT community they may actually have an uproar against them for writing a representation story where they simply tragically kill the person from the minority community.

I think that's why I feel depressed when I read X-comics these days, there is this feeling of hopelessness and despair and I wonder if they will ever have anything positive happen to them. The current state of the X-Men is that hate wins over hope. I really miss the Utopia days, it's one of my favourite periods in that it felt like the X-Men had some control over their own fate for a while, they had created an independent nation, they had the backing and support of Namor, and they even had support from the city of San Francisco. It felt like there was actually some hope. The X-kids were able to visit San Francisco fairly often too and get away from Utopia for a little while. The five lights appeared and suddenly it was possible for the decimation to come to an end at last.

[Jackraow21]

The only thing I couldn’t follow there was the part about Logan being “transmasculine.” Not sure what this means, much less how to unpack it. Four bigoted a-holes killed a young mutant he cared about. He’s pissed and wants to F them up for it. That’s kind of what he does, whether the victim’s fate is being used as an allegory for trans panic or just plain old panic and evil.

[Wiccan]

I wouldn't have thought of that, but now that I read it, it does feel like a very close parallel/metaphor... I'm not sure if it was intentional... But even if it wasn't, It was still a depressing gruesome death done for shock value. It's like Rosenberg wants to kill every character in a more dark way than the other, and I just feel like it's stupid. Especially when it's being done to secondary teenage girls in a book all about Scott and Logan, to develop them.

The only thing I couldn’t follow there was the part about Logan being “transmasculine.” Not sure what this means, much less how to unpack it. Four bigoted a-holes killed a young mutant he cared about. He’s pissed and wants to F them up for it. That’s kind of what he does, whether the victim is being used as an allegory for trans panic or just plain old panic and evil.

Yeah I feel like this article would be better if they just focused on the main subject instead of throwing some stuff like that around. I think it just means some trans guys identify with Wolverine for some reasons(?).

[Maestroneto]

Apology: https://mobile.twitter.com/AshcanPre...65856294739970

[Omega Alpha]

The only thing I couldn’t follow there was the part about Logan being “transmasculine.” Not sure what this means, much less how to unpack it. Four bigoted a-holes killed a young mutant he cared about. He’s pissed and wants to F them up for it. That’s kind of what he does, whether the victim’s fate is being used as an allegory for trans panic or just plain old panic and evil.

Yeah, the article writer is one of those people that sees pretty much every character as gay/trans- see him(her?them?) identifying every single female new mutant, plus Kitty, as lesbian, for that matter.

[Omega Alpha]

Apology: https://mobile.twitter.com/AshcanPre...65856294739970

Why not, instead of an apology, simply talk about the issue with someone that is a member of the community you're writing a metaphor about? Hell, at least someone that is not from the same background as you are, in gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion, etc.

[Maestro 216]

I think it is a microcosm of the bigger problem with the X-Men. Writers love pushing all these metaphors like the gas clouds from the Inhumans nonsense back when Ike was fucking **** up for Marvel, the Avengers X-Men stuff that kinda left a taste of disappointment for certain characters like Cyclops in some people's minds, and other controversial things since the late '00s. Really all this boils down to is meaningless despair and death. The Avengers constantly save the world from threats and get treated like heroes all the time. X-Men stop dire world-ending plots and even in 2019 we still have them being executed on a daily basis, guns pointed in their face, and most of the world considering them like cancer. You as a human get tired of the same old thing if it keeps being fed to you, and this is happening with the X-Men.

A good character died for no other reason than to push a subject matter. What happened to these characters dying for heroic reasons? Perhaps there is no hope for mutants and this book if nothing ever changes, and for that, I blame the editors and writers who can't do anything to change this horrible status quo. Nothing against them personally, but they are meant to provide good stories and well I can't say I enjoyed much from Uncanny X-Men #17.