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  1. #136
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    I'm trying to get my hands on those older issues of Nightwing. When those were being produced back then, I just didn't have access to them. I did read Knightfall. Yes, that was Dixon's work, but it was Dick Grayson as Batman. Still, it was a great story. Thanks for the tip.

  2. #137

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    DC these days is just not good. Their main writer seems to be Synder and he's fallen off a cliff. Bendis' Superman stuff is wack.

    DC was best in mid 2000's with the build up to Infinite Crisis. This was the era of John's Flash, JSA, Hawkman, Green Lantern. Kevin Smith's Green Arrow. Gotham Central. Pfeifer/Gleason's Aquaman. Followed by the weekly 52 series. All of Morrison's DC work is top class. 7 soldiers, to Batman/Final Crisis, Action Comics, Multiversity - all legendary runs.

    The New 52 in general just killed everything.

    Rebirth is no where near the quality level of those runs I listed. I try a new DC book here and there to no avail. I liked King's Mister Miracle but I cant think of much else.
    Last edited by Destro777; 05-09-2020 at 12:42 AM.
    Currently Reading:
    BPRD Omnis, Berserk Deluxe Editions, Hickman's X-Men, Bendis' Daredevil, Morrison's New X-Men, Vertigo Hellblazer trades
    Current issues of Savage Dragon and Spawn.

  3. #138
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    DC allowed writers like Gail Simone, Chuck Dixon, Brad Meltzer, Tony Bedard and Judd Winnick to build up the character of Black Canary for years in various titles and then randomly handed the Green Arrow and Black Canary title over to Andrew Kreisberg and flushed it all down the toilet...they editorially dictated that Dinah's Chairmanship of the JLA be torn down before it had barely begun...then they allowed Kreisberg (who had already done what he could to destroy the character he clearly knew nothing about and clearly didn't care to learn in the comics) to help contribute to the same treatment of the character in live action on the show "Arrow".
    Though Jurnee Smollett's performance was a step forward along with some other instances in the comics, the character of Black Canary has still not fully recovered from the seemingly intentional, disrespectful treatment of the character.

    ...Sooo, yeah, you could say I'm disappointed in DC.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yeah, this really makes no sense. DC's three most popular characters aren't as compelling as Marvel's three most popular (I disagree with this sentiment immensely, but for the sake of argument...) so DC should go more in on their less popular second and third tier guys just because they have a following, even if that following is still smaller than Batman's, Superman's, and Wonder Woman's?
    Who says their followings are smaller? Comic book stores? Many who won't order books at times?

    It's not DC's fault guys like Jaime Reyes, Aquaman and others have followings that don't bother with monthlies.

    It's not flood the market with so-called second level guys-it's stop acting like they don't matter. Moon Girl, Squirrel Girl, Ms Marvel, Shuri and Riri Williams account for 30+ trades as leads and not in team books. Jessica Cruz, Vixen, Bumblebee & Cassandra Cain barely have 11. That's an issue.

  5. #140
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Who says their followings are smaller? Comic book stores? Many who won't order books at times?

    It's not DC's fault guys like Jaime Reyes, Aquaman and others have followings that don't bother with monthlies.

    It's not flood the market with so-called second level guys-it's stop acting like they don't matter. Moon Girl, Squirrel Girl, Ms Marvel, Shuri and Riri Williams account for 30+ trades as leads and not in team books. Jessica Cruz, Vixen, Bumblebee & Cassandra Cain barely have 11. That's an issue.
    Been a while since I posted that, so I'm trying to guess/remember the context and what I meant or responded to without going back - I think it wasn't "they shouldn't do more with these characters" but more "they shouldn't do more with these characters at the expense of more popular character and certainly the weird premise that DC should move away from those characters because they're not as popular as Marvel's top three (which I disagree with, but that's what whoever said). Especially that last bit, really doesn't make sense.

    As for their following not being as large, kind of assume if they had big followings they'd have big sales. If their following doesn't buy their books, can it be called a following?

  6. #141
    Fantastic Member Man_of_Tomorrow's Avatar
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    I do feel post new 52 DC had some really heavy management issues that leaked into the work. With good talent leaving the titles abruptly, or in some cases before they even begin a run, making DCs talent pool very limited. Lack of general direction and infighting, which especially after rebirth it is out of control. But mostly what buffles me is the halfassness. They couldn't commit to a reboot , so that failed, they went for a throw everything approach that was DcYou, that of course failed and they couldn't even properly return to the status quo with Rebirth, scrapping the storyline mid way. Suddenly their continuity was all over the place and that affects the titles.
    And of course there was idea stagnation because most writers just tried to catch up their characters to pre 52 status, so they spend time '' fixing'' books. And editorially enforced events, which turned out quite repetitive, we got 3 villain themed events since the new 52!

    But like any Era there are some standout titles.

  7. #142
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Until DC has repented of the sin of collectively trying to bury John Stewart and push a Hal Jordan that has biased love from the old head crew, there can be no correcting of the ship. At a time when there was building momentum for John Stewart, folk at the top didn't like it and deliberately chilled on him being the face of Green Lanterns. First they over compensate by forcing Hal stories, then they spit out 3-4 new earth specific Lanterns...????

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Been a while since I posted that, so I'm trying to guess/remember the context and what I meant or responded to without going back - I think it wasn't "they shouldn't do more with these characters" but more "they shouldn't do more with these characters at the expense of more popular character and certainly the weird premise that DC should move away from those characters because they're not as popular as Marvel's top three (which I disagree with, but that's what whoever said). Especially that last bit, really doesn't make sense.

    As for their following not being as large, kind of assume if they had big followings they'd have big sales. If their following doesn't buy their books, can it be called a following?

    Last time I checked a book can be a trade or floppy.

    I can't have any sales if the opportunity to have a book is constantly denied. Because yo have a good old boy network, along with entitlement fans and bias store owners who will fight back at any attempt.

    You can't cry about why someone can't catch on when chances are limited.

    You can't cry about someone not catching on when access to your book is limited to comic book stores and limited if ANY promotion.

    The biggest and constant complaint I have heard has been FINDING said stuff. If all yo care about is batman and his entitlement friends-access to them at Barnes & Nobles, Target and Wal-Mart is not impossible.

    Static? Young Justice kids? Bumblebee? GOOD LUCK. That Black Panther wave-that was more due to for the first time in a long time folks could find STUFF starring a hero of color. Who was not the comic relief or sidekick or a guy missing body parts.

    Same with those OGNS with Raven, Cass and soon Beast Boy & Aqualad.

    Guess what go back about 12 years those books wouldn't sniff a shelf at Barnes & Nobles and others. I could not order those books for my school because Scholastic wouldn't sell them. Meanwhile at comic cons-I saws kids DESTROY bins looking for every single character DAN and his gang RUINED. From Static to John Stewart to Tim, Wally, Kyle, Nightwing, Young Justice Kids, Jaime, Stephanie, Cassandra and even Question.

    The very set of folks DC has gone out of their way to make folks dislike them. Tim, Conor, Bart, Cass, Static and the rest of DC's teens should be DESTROYING Marvel's teen population.

    Instead it's damage control for the last 17 years.

  9. #144
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Until DC has repented of the sin of collectively trying to bury John Stewart and push a Hal Jordan that has biased love from the old head crew, there can be no correcting of the ship. At a time when there was building momentum for John Stewart, folk at the top didn't like it and deliberately chilled on him being the face of Green Lanterns. First they over compensate by forcing Hal stories, then they spit out 3-4 new earth specific Lanterns...????
    Yes, all of DC's problems are due to having Hal as the main GL and not John. Despite the fact that the mythos was at its peak during the revival of Hal and Johns on the title, where it was outselling BATMAN, and had multiple books. And now currently Morrison's Hal book is one of the few good books coming out of DC.

    Sounds legit.

  10. #145
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Last time I checked a book can be a trade or floppy.
    Yes - I thought we were talking about both? Was anyone referring to just one or the other?


    I can't have any sales if the opportunity to have a book is constantly denied. Because yo have a good old boy network, along with entitlement fans and bias store owners who will fight back at any attempt.

    You can't cry about why someone can't catch on when chances are limited.

    You can't cry about someone not catching on when access to your book is limited to comic book stores and limited if ANY promotion.

    The biggest and constant complaint I have heard has been FINDING said stuff. If all yo care about is batman and his entitlement friends-access to them at Barnes & Nobles, Target and Wal-Mart is not impossible.

    Static? Young Justice kids? Bumblebee? GOOD LUCK. That Black Panther wave-that was more due to for the first time in a long time folks could find STUFF starring a hero of color. Who was not the comic relief or sidekick or a guy missing body parts.

    Same with those OGNS with Raven, Cass and soon Beast Boy & Aqualad.

    Guess what go back about 12 years those books wouldn't sniff a shelf at Barnes & Nobles and others. I could not order those books for my school because Scholastic wouldn't sell them. Meanwhile at comic cons-I saws kids DESTROY bins looking for every single character DAN and his gang RUINED. From Static to John Stewart to Tim, Wally, Kyle, Nightwing, Young Justice Kids, Jaime, Stephanie, Cassandra and even Question.

    The very set of folks DC has gone out of their way to make folks dislike them. Tim, Conor, Bart, Cass, Static and the rest of DC's teens should be DESTROYING Marvel's teen population.

    Instead it's damage control for the last 17 years.
    Don't most people buy books on Amazon now anyways?

  11. #146
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    As for their following not being as large, kind of assume if they had big followings they'd have big sales. If their following doesn't buy their books, can it be called a following?
    If we take Bumblebee as an example... if Bumblebee has a large following (I'm not exactly sure how big her fan base is, and I don't really know how big a fan base ANY character has, just based off of sales), but she doesn't have a solo book on the market for anyone to pick up, how would that negate the fact that Bumblebee has a large following?

    To me, if a character has a large fan base, but the company does not want to give that character a solo book and just wants to keep sticking that character in team books, that does not mean that the character does not have a large following. To me that just tells me the character has a large following, but doesn't have a book for the fan base to pick up.

    Also, I don't agree with the "kind of assume if they had big followings they'd have big sales" mentality. I'm going to use Black Panther as an example. Personally I feel that Black Panther has a large following (specifically in the comic book reading community), but his current solo book does not have huge sales because a lot of readers do not seem to like Ta-Nehesi Coates' work on the book and they do not like how he is handling T'Challa as a character.
    Last edited by MoneySpider; 05-10-2020 at 04:29 PM.
    Black Panther - Champion of Bast
    Vixen - Champion of Anansi

  12. #147
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    If we take Bumblebee as an example... if Bumblebee has a large following (I'm not exactly sure how big her fan base is, and I don't really know how big a fan base ANY character has, just based off of sales), but she doesn't have a solo book on the market for anyone to pick up, how would that negate the fact that Bumblebee has a large following?

    To me, if a character has a large fan base, but the company does not want to give that character a solo book and just wants to keep sticking that character in team books, that does not mean that the character does not have a large following. To me that just tells me the character has a large following, but doesn't have a book for the fan base to pick up.

    Also, I don't agree with the "kind of assume if they had big followings they'd have big sales" mentality. I'm going to use Black Panther as an example. Personally I feel that Black Panther has a large following (specifically in the comic book reading community), but his current solo book does not have huge sales because a lot of readers do not seem to like Ta-Nehesi Coates' work on the book and they do not like how he is handling T'Challa as a character.
    Eh, I'm going to be honest, I'm not interested in this topic. This spun out of me not understanding why someone would think that DC's top 3 not being as popular as Marvel's top 3 should mean DC should do less with their top 3 to push some other characters. I really don't understand that argument. But I have no motivation trying to figure out the size of some various characters followings and how easy to get their books is, so I'm bowing out.

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