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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'll try to give you a quick recap, mostly spoiler free. Not sure how much you follow the Super-titles so you might know some of this already.

    Jon was having a hard time at home (just moved to Metropolis from the farm, got turned down by the Titans, assorted other kid problems) and decided to take a summer trip exploring space with his grandfather Jor-El (who's alive because of stuff the previous creative teams and Johns were doing). Things went wrong and Jon ended up spending several years in space before being imprisoned in an alternate dimension for more years. He eventually made it home, but while only weeks had passed for everyone else he had spent about six-seven years away (time travel is involved, obviously). So now he's around 16-17 instead of 10.

    Over the last few issues of Superman, Jon has been telling his story and explaining what happened to him. We don't know yet what the new status quo will look like or how the family will deal with this, how they'll try to explain their son suddenly being older, ect.

    It's been a real hit, losing 10 year old Jon, who was a national treasure. However, this new "Space Prince" Jon has been interesting. We'll see how it goes and what the new "normal" is, but I think it has promise. Whether you'd enjoy it? That's for you to decide.
    I have to say I think you're downplaying the awfulness of what happened and trying to give it a positive sounding spin. Jon said he may of spent a year with Jor-el. Jon then got sucked though a wormhole to Earth 3 where he was imprisoned and tortured inside a volcano by Ultraman for the next six-seven years before escaping. Now they don't specify how much time he spent in the volcano vs how much time wandering earth 3 in hiding before finally getting off, but he did not spend most of his time having adventures in space. "Space Prince" is hardly an accurate description.

    Frankly, I find this completely terrible and the best case scenario I see is Jon was right about spending a year with Jor-el and they end up stopping the younger Jon from going back in time in the first place(Jon returned to the main universe three weeks since he first left home, so if he spent a year with Jor-el there would be plenty of time to stop this).

  2. #62
    Fantastic Member paulojrmam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    I have never considered Beyond the true future of Batman and were I in charge I'd make that explicit. The future glimpsed in Tom King's Batman annual#2 also directly contradicts it
    I am of the mind that Batman Beyond is extremely underused. IMO it should be the future of Batman (and be more involved with the rest of the DCU). The other futures should be deviations. Just like the LOSH future is the main one and other post-apocalyptic futures are deviations to be fixed.
    Last edited by paulojrmam; 04-29-2019 at 06:26 AM.

  3. #63
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulojrmam View Post
    I am of the mind that Batman Beyond is extremely underused. IMO it should be the future of Batman (and be more involved with the rest of the DCU). The other futures should be deviations. Just like the LOSH future is the main one and other post-apocalyptic futures are deviations to be fixed.
    Disagree, I prefer all futures to be deviations with no one future the future. Future, as always, should be yet to be determined.
    Agreed that Beyond is underused though and should get more play. I'm just against any future being considered "main" "true" or etc.

  4. #64
    Fantastic Member paulojrmam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Disagree, I prefer all futures to be deviations with no one future the future. Future, as always, should be yet to be determined.
    Agreed that Beyond is underused though and should get more play. I'm just against any future being considered "main" "true" or etc.
    The problem is that any future to appear, will probably be a bad future, because that's what generates conflict. That means there will eventually, and there are, a lot of potential evil futures. To compensate for that, they should play more with what are hopeful futures, and the only ones I can think of are Beyond and the 31st century.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    There is no real future of batman nor should there be. I like the idea of potential futures though I support Terry being more involved in the current line.

    Which is why I'm such a big fan of batman 700 and what Jurgen's doing with the title.
    Bringing the current family into the verse and giving them a connection with Terry.
    Dick fighting with terry and Bruce to save Matt and then breaking cycle of Robin made me very happy.

    As it stands Beyond is the closest thing we have to an actual future [it is listed as the our earth slightly in the future] but I like to think that even it isn't set in stone.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    There is no real future of batman nor should there be. I like the idea of potential futures though I support Terry being more involved in the current line.

    Which is why I'm such a big fan of batman 700 and what Jurgen's doing with the title.
    Bringing the current family into the verse and giving them a connection with Terry.
    Dick fighting with terry and Bruce to save Matt and then breaking cycle of Robin made me very happy.

    As it stands Beyond is the closest thing we have to an actual future [it is listed as the our earth slightly in the future] but I like to think that even it isn't set in stone.
    Beyond's future sinks any chance of Batcat and Dick and Babs. I refuse to count it.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Beyond's future sinks any chance of Batcat and Dick and Babs. I refuse to count it.
    That's fair but romance/pairings aren't a deciding factor for me so that doesn't bother me.

  8. #68
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemisfanboy View Post
    I have to say I think you're downplaying the awfulness of what happened and trying to give it a positive sounding spin. Jon said he may of spent a year with Jor-el. Jon then got sucked though a wormhole to Earth 3 where he was imprisoned and tortured inside a volcano by Ultraman for the next six-seven years before escaping. Now they don't specify how much time he spent in the volcano vs how much time wandering earth 3 in hiding before finally getting off, but he did not spend most of his time having adventures in space. "Space Prince" is hardly an accurate description.
    I take it you missed it when I said I was trying to be spoiler free, huh?

    Frankly, I find this completely terrible and the best case scenario I see is Jon was right about spending a year with Jor-el and they end up stopping the younger Jon from going back in time in the first place(Jon returned to the main universe three weeks since he first left home, so if he spent a year with Jor-el there would be plenty of time to stop this).
    You do you man. I'm enjoying it well enough, myself. Enough so that I might end up thinking this was worth the loss of 10 year old Jon (we'll see how it all shakes out). Whether the poster I originally replied to enjoy the story or not, only they can say.
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  9. #69
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulojrmam View Post
    The problem is that any future to appear, will probably be a bad future, because that's what generates conflict. That means there will eventually, and there are, a lot of potential evil futures. To compensate for that, they should play more with what are hopeful futures, and the only ones I can think of are Beyond and the 31st century.
    Oh, I agree that they should play with and show the more hopeful futures more often, love that stuff, I'm just saying they shouldn't be the default. I just prefer endless possible futures and leaving it uncertain. Who knows what may be and all that.

  10. #70
    Amazing Member Angleman70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickWJ324 View Post
    I've been a DC fanboy for as long as I can remember. With that said I am finding myself more and more disappointed with the DC books with each passing week to the point that I'm starting to drop books. Just a few dreadful points off the top of my head:
    1)Ric Grayson. Enough already. Get the book back on track or put it out of its misery. Art and writing are terrible. DiDio may not like Dick Grayson but his fans sure do.
    2)Bat titles have been on a downward spiral since the bat/cat wedding (that should've happened). And Thomas Wayne working with Bane to destroy his son?! F.U.
    3)Superman titles. I was for Bendis coming onboard but Rogol Zaar is going nowhere, bringing back Jor-el is ridiculous, the Jon Kent character was destroyed, and now supes can change his hair/face/ethnicity on a whim?! Perhaps he should've been doing that all along instead of wearing glasses as a disguise. These titles are going down the toilet.
    4)Heroes in Crisis - Really??!! This last issue and what was done to Wally is unforgivable. A BIG F.U. to Didio and the writers and staff behind that book.
    5)Aquaman - story is a boring mess right now. Perhaps amnesiac Andy can hang out with amnesiac Ric and figure out how to star in a title that I can give a rats a$$ about.

    DC...you disappoint me. DiDio needs to go and you should take a long look at your writing and editorial staff.
    Totally agree! I am a longtime dc reader and all I can say is D. DiDIO and his ilk are sorely responsible. As a WW fan, I am alarmed and ashamed how DC has treated her in the last few decades. I believe that DC has no interest on making this character popular or giving her the respect that is truly owed to her. Yes, she had the film, it was great but at the same time DC didnít give their enthusiasm on the great reviews. No second title or third like Batman or Superman. Itís a shame and I refuse to buy anything from DC till they get that through their thick heads.

    WW is not the only character to suffer, Aquaman and Hawkman to name just a few also suffer. Until DC QUITS with its Batman Love, we wonít get a better DC Universe!

  11. #71
    More human than human thetrellan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickWJ324 View Post
    I've been a DC fanboy for as long as I can remember. With that said I am finding myself more and more disappointed with the DC books with each passing week to the point that I'm starting to drop books. Just a few dreadful points off the top of my head:
    1)Ric Grayson. Enough already. Get the book back on track or put it out of its misery. Art and writing are terrible. DiDio may not like Dick Grayson but his fans sure do.
    2)Bat titles have been on a downward spiral since the bat/cat wedding (that should've happened). And Thomas Wayne working with Bane to destroy his son?! F.U.
    3)Superman titles. I was for Bendis coming onboard but Rogol Zaar is going nowhere, bringing back Jor-el is ridiculous, the Jon Kent character was destroyed, and now supes can change his hair/face/ethnicity on a whim?! Perhaps he should've been doing that all along instead of wearing glasses as a disguise. These titles are going down the toilet.
    4)Heroes in Crisis - Really??!! This last issue and what was done to Wally is unforgivable. A BIG F.U. to Didio and the writers and staff behind that book.
    5)Aquaman - story is a boring mess right now. Perhaps amnesiac Andy can hang out with amnesiac Ric and figure out how to star in a title that I can give a rats a$$ about.

    DC...you disappoint me. DiDio needs to go and you should take a long look at your writing and editorial staff.
    Spoilers ahead. I actually like the Ric storyline. But yeah, it's probably time they made their point and moved on. I do like aging Jon into his late teens. That dopey kid was kind of annoying to me. But otherwise think Bendis has played too loose and fast with recent events. Yes Jor-El did appear recently and wanted custody of Jon, but was refused by Clark and Lois. Bendis can hardly claim it's too much to research, and anyway I think he lost his mind long ago. So Superman making out with Lois in front of every cell phone camera in sight doesn't elicit the outrage over out-of-character behavior it might once have. Heroes in Crisis? Come on DC. Since when is the Speed Force psychosis inducing? And how did Wally suddenly turn suicidal? Give me a freaking break. I never liked Wally as the Flash, and even I was outraged by this. But Aquaman does help me see a little your point with Ric.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    Read what you like, don't read what you don't.

    Has it cut down on the number of comics I read? Yeah, not just from DC but from all publishers. But I enjoy it more because I'm only reading stuff I like and not paying money for stuff I know I'll dislike.

    Not to mention, continuity at DC (and Marvel) is basically "Story first, history second" and only matters if the current writer feels like bringing it up. Do things like what Heroes in Crisis did to Wally tick me off? As a huge Wally fan, yes. But I also know the whole thing will be disregarded and pushed aside within two years most likely.
    Yeeeah. This is exactly what I thought when Barry died. Not saying you should be worried. Just saying.
    Jor-El was brought back before Bendis came on. Jurgens brought him back during Rebirth (or, if you want to get technical he was brought back at the tail end of the New 52). Bendis just used him as a way to remove Jon and Lois from the comics for a few months.
    But he did a spur of the moment retcon to do it. A retcon of material so recent I, for one, have never before heard of. He saw a missed opportunity, then pretended things happened the way he preferred. Lame. Very lame.

    Just after the Bruce/Selina wedding story wrapped up, I decided that since I was sick of not being up on aspects of the DCU, and the overall quality of artwork is such that I no longer actually despise any of it (and anyway have been getting most of the titles as it stood), it wouldn't kill me to go all in and start collecting all of it. And my impression of the DCU right now is that they are headed for yet another retcon. Bigger than Rebirth or Zero Hour, but smaller than CIE or N52. Not just because of things like HIC. Let's face it, folks, if you saw all of what's been going on in a TV show, you would be dead certain the story would end with "it never really happened". This is no show, though. It's a trend that's been going on for the better part of a decade now. But also because of all this stuff with the Source wall falling, the dark multiverse, and all that. It seems likely that when all is put to rights, the DCU will, at the very least, have a new set of rules to follow. With the powers that have been released, I think it very possible that the speed force has been corrupted, especially given how events in the Flash's book have gone down. FLASH 2016 50 (20).jpgI don't believe we'll end up with the recent past having been erased, but damn, isn't that not unlike what Bendis did with Jor-El? Like history itself is hiccuping.

    Even so, don't like that HIC can ever be said to have happened. It's like the dark multiverse has infected the light. Don't like it. Don't buy it. Guys, the only sidekick I ever liked was Wally West. And this event is seriously messed up.

  12. #72
    More human than human thetrellan's Avatar
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    Spoke too soon. Simonson did a fast retcon of the material revealed to Thor by Odin's oracular floating eyeball. But he didn't pick and choose, he just said you couldn't believe what a floating eye says.

  13. #73
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    I'm disappointed with Aquaman.
    For a good long while there is was one of, if not THE best DC book on the shelves.
    Now? It's one of the worst things you can say for a story - COMPLETELY forgettable.
    DC missed a big opportunity to really push Aquaman & Mera and completely *ahem* missed the boat. (sorry)

    Green Lantern is still a blast - but I don't see Sharp and Morrison staying any longer than a year.
    Flash has been ordinary. Which is better than it was during New52, but still nothing special.
    Doomsday Clock has been enjoyable - when it arrives.

    But I can never forgive DC for the treatment of Wally West.
    Heroes In Crisis is not only a shitty story with plot holes you can drive a truck through and characterisation that is COMPLETELY out of whack with established continuity, but has managed to take a steaming piss all over my favourite comic book character. I now truly understand what the HEATers felt years ago.
    Absolute unmitigated shitshow.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
    I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

  14. #74
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    Yeah, a little bit, but I'm equally disinterested in what's over at Marvel right now too.

    Right now, I read Justice League, Shazam, Hawkman, and a sufficiently mediocre run on Batman Beyond that I'm only supporting because it's Batman Beyond (nothing has surpassed Adam Beechen's stuff since). Addendum: Doomsday Clock too, but I forget it exists.

    But in general DC has more things that are interesting and either out of continuity or fresh enough that continuity isn't an issue than Marvel, and those books are often worth trying or investing. That said, I haven't been interested in any of the stuff that showed up since Young Animal was put on pause (and personally the number of different imprints/ corners of the DC universe introduced since the Milestone announcement with no clear indication or hint at when that might be launched is kind of sad).

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scribbleMind View Post
    . . . I haven't been interested in any of the stuff that showed up since Young Animal was put on pause (and personally the number of different imprints/ corners of the DC universe introduced since the Milestone announcement with no clear indication or hint at when that might be launched is kind of sad).
    Well, don't forget, DC doesn't have complete control of the Milestone properties, so there may be factors there beyond DC's control.

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