X-Men: Days of Future Past Movie (SPOILERS)

[Fringe Division]

I wouldn't say that. Strong female characters in the MCU include: Maria Hill, Pepper Pots, Black Widow, Lady Sif, Jane Foster, and soon to be added, Gamora and Scarlet Witch. It's something. I think they should find a way to include Superia in Age of Ultron or Cap 3.

You're talking four separate solo franchises and two team franchises spread over more films than the X-Men have had. Maria Hill doesn't have all that much to do in any of them and gets crapped on in AoS to build up Coulson. Sif has had a few nice moments but ultimately plays the part of Secondary Female Pining For Male Lead.

Meanwhile, their talk of doing a Black Widow film never pans out, and Total For-Real Feminist Who Balks At the Word "Feminist" Joss Whedon has shot down the idea of having Carol Danvers in the Avengers because her powers are "not defined" enough and despite the clean slate the filmverse could offer the character he's boiled Scarlet Witch down to a crazy person.

I'm tired of the men can't comment on something revolving sexism with women because we are not women. I'm one of the biggest Rogue fans and I flamed singer for cutting Rogue on twitter. But it's not sexism.

Being so entitled that you troll someone on Twitter because you don't like their gd creative choices isn't something to be bragging about.

[Darkholder]

I think the female characters in the movie probably would have been given bigger parts if there were better female actors in the cast. You know that Mystique is getting a big part because Jennifer Lawrence is very popular right now, but Halle Berry's portrayal of Storm and Anna Paquin's portrayal of Rogue have both been very weak and highly criticized. Also, I don't feel that Ellen Page is right for Kitty. She just always seems depressed. Very unlike comics Kitty.

Are you for real? Like J. Law, both Halle Berry and Anna Paquin had Oscars while making the original trilogy, and Ellen Page is a quality actress in her own right and could have won an Oscar for Juno. So please don't blame the actors. They are not the problem, even if they were not the best fit for the roles.

They didn't cast themselves. They didn't write their own part. They didn't direct themselves badly. Put the blame where the blame is due. The people hiring Channing Tatum as Gambit.

[Darkholder]

Female roles are critiqued now more because if we didn't we'd just fall back into the same white dude routine over and over. We have to keep reminding the film industry that representation matters.

X-actly!

While some male characters got the shaft.. men can still look everywhere for representation, like Marvel movies, DC movies...while we are literally starving for quality representation in comicbook movies. While they write great female side characters, it doesn't change the fact that superhero movies are starring predominately white males, despite the fact comicbook movie audiences are really diverse, in race and gender. In team ratios, the amount of guys to everyone female is off putting. People point out Elektra and Catwoman as the reason why female comicbook movies don't happen, while completely ignoring Green Lantern, Superman Returns...Improving representation is not a bad thing. X-Men are about being diverse, the underdogs of society. They are a literal metaphor for society.

It's ok to like something but also see how problematic it is.

I couldn't have summed it up better. What you mention is part of the reason why it's so infuriating to see some people still not get it. We never get female superhero movies because our culture only supports male heroes and their journeys. It's also why Wonder Woman still can't get her own solo movie. Or any other lesser known superheroine.

And it's exactly because I adore everything the X-men represents, that I criticize it for not living up to its promise.

[Cyclops]

Even if Marvel/Sony/Fox bankroll these supposedly female superheroes movies, do you think they will flop, break even, or be a massive hit?

Chances are they will either flop or just break even. Maybe you will get one or two sleeper hits out of dozens produced female oriented superhero movies. And studios are not there to appease those who want to be politically correct, they will go where the money is, that is why you will see more movies about male superheroes or group of male superheroes with female side characters. Studios always side with caution about bankrolling these type of films because they will surely lose money if they keep on churning them.

Although I want to see quality female superhero movies, sadly the circumstances are not yet right (or they might not be a BIG paying market for this).

Edit: grammar.

[RedQueen]

Even if Marvel/Sony/Fox bankroll these supposedly female superheroes movies, do you think they will flop, break even, or be a massive hit?

Chances are they will either flop or just break even. Maybe you will get one or two sleeper hits out of dozens produced female oriented superhero movies. And studios are not there to appease those who want to be politically correct, they will go where the money is, that is why you will see more movies about male superheroes or group of male superheroes with female side characters. Studios always side with caution about bankrolling these type of films because they will surely lose money if they keep on churning them.

Although I want to see quality female superhero movies, sadly the circumstances are not yet right (or they might not be a BIG paying market for this).

Edit: grammar.

My point is that male lead films have tanked too. All over the place. yet the industry likes to put a stigma around female lead films. There's a rise a female lead movies, like the Hunger Games. It's just everyone seems afraid to make quality movies with female leads.

[JaggedFel]

Indeed Ryan Reynolds has had 3 Flops in a row. I dont think any women and/or minority actors could survive that not to mention the collateral damage to all other minorities. But it aint going to stop white men from still getting leads in action movies.

I mean come on DC cannot get Wonder Woman off the ground and I can point to someone successfully mining Greco Roman Mythology in any form of media u care to point to be it books, movies, manga, or video games. Besides much less of a risk in team movies.

[motherofpearl1]

I can't help but notice DoFP introduces four ethnic characters - Blink, Bishop, Sunspot and Warpath - then essentially removes them after about 10 minutes. The pity is they're all great characters who could have done with more screentime. Beast, the only 'deformed' hero, is now some kind of werewolf who only turns furry when he gets angry. And the disabled Prof X spends most of his time walking.

As a result we have a bunch of heroes who are poster children for extreme right wing views in a film whose source material is all about prejudice and the persecution of the 'other'. Their villains are the only leading female and a man suffering from dwarfism.

I can't help but think it's a pity they couldn't have had Peters as Northstar, rather than Quicksilver. He has a similar power set and at least we would have one minority group represented.

[RedQueen]

I can't help but notice DoFP introduces four ethnic characters - Blink, Bishop, Sunspot and Warpath - then essentially removes them after about 10 minutes. The pity is they're all great characters who could have done with more screentime. Beast, the only 'deformed' hero, is now some kind of werewolf who only turns furry when he gets angry. And the disabled Prof X spends most of his time walking.

As a result we have a bunch of heroes who are poster children for extreme right wing views in a film whose source material is all about prejudice and the persecution of the 'other'. Their villains are the only leading female and a man suffering from dwarfism.

I can't help but think it's a pity they couldn't have had Peters as Northstar, rather than Quicksilver. He has a similar power set and at least we would have one minority group represented.

I totally agree. It's like HERE! HERE IS YOUR DIVERSITY! WE AREN'T RACIST! Then proceeds to follow the narrative of the white dudes.

[Franchise408]

While some male characters got the shaft.. men can still look everywhere for representation, like Marvel movies, DC movies...while we are literally starving for quality representation in comicbook movies. While they write great female side characters, it doesn't change the fact that superhero movies are starring predominately white males, despite the fact comicbook movie audiences are really diverse, in race and gender. In team ratios, the amount of guys to everyone female is off putting. People point out Elektra and Catwoman as the reason why female comicbook movies don't happen, while completely ignoring Green Lantern, Superman Returns...Improving representation is not a bad thing. X-Men are about being diverse, the underdogs of society. They are a literal metaphor for society.

It's ok to like something but also see how problematic it is.

And it's also okay to like something and not see a problem.

I understand you. But at least you have a basis on your opinions just by looking at your collections and the way you speak, you actually sound like an X-men expert though you don't want to claim as such.

My favorite is The Last Stand and the first X-men movie cos somehow, Halle's appearance with the long hair made me really think that she is a Storm for real. I'm a crazy fan, a super crazy Storm fan so we can talk about Ororo Munroe forever if you want, but I don't think you would want to.

For me, the reason why the X-Men: Days of Future Past could be a story for Magneto, Professor X, Mystique and Wolverine is because they want the audience to know the vision of Prof X and Magneto and how they differ. Also they made them more interesting by getting younger actors because honestly, I wasn't as interested as until i've watched them in x-men first class because I was only seeing a grandpa Magneto and grandpa Prof X on previous x films. I think the actress behind Mystique is popular that she's been given a better role. Wolverine is Wolverine.

I think it could have been a story for Storm too but Halle got pregnant.

Thanks man, I appreciate the words.

[Tomppa]

Well if we're gonna start taking fandom into question:



But surely you're not taking that route just because someone has a different opinion, right?

Wow, that is one heck of an impressive collection! Have to raise my (non-existent) hat to you my friend.

Haha, thanks. This image actually got me banned from another X-Men forum, because someone took my fandom into question because of some of my tastes and preferences for the film series (I.E.: I like [see: LOVE] X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, I'm not a fan of reboots or continuity wipes, and I'm not all that interested in seeing future X-Men movies go into space or take the Avengers road in movie franchise building) and I responded to them. Granted, the story is a lot longer than just that, and I have my own faults in the situation, but me posting this picture was the final spark lol.

I by no means claim to be an X-Men expert. There's lots of stories I haven't read that I perhaps should have. There's definitely people out there with larger collections than I myself have. And I do admit that I am something of an anti-fanboy - my "fanboy" tastes are pretty different than normal. I LOVE X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine and think they are good contributions to the X-Men film franchise (yes, I do recognize and acknowledge their flaws though), and I would rather watch those movies than the Nolan Batman trilogy or the Avengers, both of which I find to be overrated (not to be confused with "bad", I just don't think they are god's gift to cinema like they are sometimes made out to be). I consider myself more of an X-Men fan than a comic book fan (I don't have very many non-X-Men related comic books, only a small few Batman, Punisher, Blade, and Flash comics). So I get that I don't always "fit in" to the fanboy norms when it comes to opinions. And I'm fine with that.

But I can't stand when someone tries to question my fandom because of my tastes. I like to discuss X-Men amongst fellow nerds, and I sometimes get really heated and really passionate about the subject and can sometimes get rather defensive (and this is also partially what led to my issues on the other forum), but all of that happens BECAUSE of my fandom, not because I lack it.

The source material means different things to different people. I know what it means for me, and I don't think that's wrong or makes me less of a fan just because someone else takes something else from it.

Very well spoken. Can't disagree with any of that. Same things mean different things to different people and everybody has a right to like whatever they want to like. I can also relate to being more of an x-fan than comic book fan thought I have read other comics and still try and actually like some non-x-characters but unfortunately they're all dead or in limbo without their own books most of the time.

I assume the people who made the already saw the movie.

I assumed that too but apparently they do those videos explicitly before seeing the film and based on what has been revealed about the films plot at that point. I loved reference to Page's coming out of the closet in that one. It's so subtle.

I suppose I can see why they feel that way. I just don't personally see an issue with it in movie land. I feel the movie has done a solid job, considering the medium, of representing women and minorities in strong roles, and not relegated to the "damsel in distress" archetype. Of course, there's been SOME of that, but this franchise certainly has no Mary Jane Watsons in it.

Yes, the comics obviously have far more diversity, in regards to gender AND nationalities and ethnicity. The comics showcase white America (Cyclops, Xavier, Angel), Africa (Storm), African American (Bishop), Southern (Rogue), Cajun (Gambit), British (Psylocke), Scottish (Moira McTaggert, Banshee), Asian (Psylocke, Sunfire), European (Magneto), Russian (Colossus), Australian (Pyro), just to name a few, and a lot of that wasn't represented in the movies. Storm hasn't been shown to be African (her African origin cameo was cut from X-Men Origins: Wolverine), Moira was American in X-Men: First Class (though properly portrayed in X-Men: The Last Stand, tho her nationality wasn't featured), Colossus didn't have his Russian background, Pyro didn't have his Australian background.

And certainly, even if they did have prominent roles in the movies, women like Storm, Jean Grey, Rogue, Mystique, Emma Frost, or Kitty Pryde, haven't had the same sort of focus and development in the movies (understandable, even 7 movies can't compare with DECADES of comic book development), and we still haven't seen women like Psylocke (I don't count her "cameo" in X-Men: The Last Stand).

But I guess where my point is... that sort of treatment isn't exclusive to the women. Cyclops isn't in the movies who he is in the comics. Colossus, Iceman, Gambit, Nightcrawler, these guys didn't get the same level of development as they have in the comics either. And for this movie in particular, where people say that Blink, Storm, and Kitty are smaller roles, so are most of the guys like Bishop, Sunspot, Warpath, Iceman, etc.

I don't necessarily BLAME the movies for this - it is a completely different medium than comics, and development is not going to be the same. Some characters, I actually PREFER the movie version over the comic book version (Xavier, Magneto come to mind, and in SOME WAYS, Jean Grey). Other characters, I prefer the comic versions (Colossus, Gambit, Cyclops, Iceman, and Storm all immediately jump to mind). Some, I like just as much in the movies as I do in the comics, for similar or different reasons (Wolverine, and Jean Grey come to mind here). Considering the medium, I feel the movies have done a rather wonderful job of representing these characters, as well as maintaining their diversity. Yes, there have been some missteps along the way, and yes there are certain things that I wish could have been handled differently over better developed, but that's just the nature of the beast.

And maybe that's why I can appreciate X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine so much. Yes, there are things in those movies that upset me as a fan (killing Cyclops and curing Rogue are blatantly disrespectful to the source material in my opinion, and adamantium bullets are the most cringe worthy plot device I've ever seen this side of the 80's), but I'm not expecting a 100% literal translation of the comics to the screen. I expect, and in a lot of areas, encourage and HOPE for deviations from the material for the sake of the story. Obviously, there's certain lines that I feel shouldn't be crossed, but I'm happy as long as I feel the spirit and foundation of the characters, the world, and the stories are being respected, and for the vast majority of these films (even X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine), I feel that spirit has been respected. I'm certainly not 100% happy with the creative direction these films have taken, and I know I won't be 100% happy with the direction of X-Men: Days Of Future Past either, but I don't think anyone could ever expect to be. And for me personally, these films have delivered as well as I could have ever hoped.

And as far as X-Men: Days Of Future Past goes, this is really a 4 person story, despite the fact that there are loads of mutants in this movie. This is an Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine, and Mystique storyline. Kitty Pryde, Storm, Colossus, Iceman, Bishop, Quicksilver, etc... are all there to support in their own way but this isn't their story.

And I don't think that's done intentionally due to sexism or any other reason. It actually makes sense. Days Of Future Past is largely Mystique's story in the comics, and this particular movie is a sequel to X-Men: First Class which was an Xavier and Magneto movie, and this movie is picking up where that film left off. It only makes sense that Xavier, Magneto, and Mystique would be the focus. Then you have Wolverine who is the star of the franchise, and the bridge between the 2 casts. To me, it's not a sexist thing that women are under represented (if you want to call it that), it's just the natural progression of the story this movie is trying to tell. Makes perfect sense to me actually. So while I can see how some people may take issue with it, I personally don't. I don't think this film is really lacking in representation, and I certainly don't think it's malicious for doing so.

Yes. This is why personally think that all X-Men related films so far have been 90% shit. They get nothing right and change everything. Everyone is Americanized and while I think that X-Men films have actually depicted women better than most superhero franchises they still have jobbed the female characters and minority ones at that. Hell, ALL characters who are not Wolverine, Xavier, Mags or Mystique have more or less been demoted to just supporting characters. And I to a certain point I understand that movies have more limitations than serialized art forms such as comics, I honestly get that, BUT I think they could have done A LOT better on almost all of the characters.

[Tomppa]

I'm surprised that there is suddenly a big debate about sexism going on in this thread. And even if some would say that I can't have an opinion on that because I'm a white straight guy and thus automatically belong into the oppressive majority I still am gonna comment on it because everybody has a right to have an opinion on every subject matter and we have to tolerate that and can only hope that everyone's opinion is an educated one and not a backwards and closeminded one.
So, here it goes.
I think that X-Men just like in the comics have actually done a better job portraying women in movies than most comic book franchises. We had Jean and Storm and Rogue and Mystique in the first, second had Jean, Storm, Mystique and Rogue again (Deathstrike was just a grunt), third had Storm, Jean, Mystique, Kitty and Rogue plus some random grunts in the background (hello there, Psylocke! Ugh) and FC had Mystique, Moira, Angel and Emma (even if she was just sleepwalking through it). Wolverine's had Silverfox and Mariko and Yukio. (These last two give me the feeling that we're maybe on the right path into getting better portrayed females into these movies)
I think that's A LOT better than most comic book movies, just compare it to Blade, Spidey or anything else from the big 2. I'm not saying that it's perfect or anything and all female characters were more or less character assassinated in the films but then so were all characters period. Males, ethnic minorities and those of different nationalities. Nobody was portrayed very well in those and it I don't think it was because of sexism. They could do so much better with almost every character!

But what comes to female lead comic book films outside of X-Men... What do we have?

DC/WB is still doubting whether or not to make WW film and despite constant rumors there are barely any news about BW movie. (And BW is the only female superhero in MCU so far while we have multiple guys!)
Both Elektra and Catwoman sucked balls. They were awful. And so was Supergirl from the 80's. And all these movies failed because they were awful movies period, not because they were female movies. And I think it's so damn obvious to most people. So studios having such reservations about making female lead movies is perplexing to me. I can't honestly deny that male heroes have more room to fail than female heroes and I think it's disappointing.

Maybe it's that studios believe that making female lead action films isn't profitable and I can kind of see that point since classically women aren't as interested in action flicks as guys are. And obviously when you want to cater to guys you make your action heroes guys too. But I think that even if RE and Underworld aren't theatrical masterpieces they prove that female lead action films can be worth making. And that's one of the reasons why I like them even if they're not that good objectively.

So basically what I want to say is that X-Men are by far not the worst offender when it comes to poor portrayal of female characters and that they portray all characters except for a handful more or less equally poorly.
I also get studios' anxiety when it comes to female lead comic book movies to a degree and there are some actually logical reasons for that but I still think that they should try it and give female lead movies more chances to see if a good female lead comic book/superhero/action film could be made and could be profitable. Sure if it fails they might lose money but you gotta lose money to make money and who knows how big of a hit a genuinely great female lead superhero comic book action flick could be!

[motherofpearl1]

I'm surprised that there is suddenly a big debate about sexism going on in this thread. And even if some would say that I can't have an opinion on that because I'm a white straight guy and thus automatically belong into the oppressive majority I still am gonna comment on it because everybody has a right to have an opinion on every subject matter and we have to tolerate that and can only hope that everyone's opinion is an educated one and not a backwards and closeminded one.
So, here it goes.
I think that X-Men just like in the comics have actually done a better job portraying women in movies than most comic book franchises. We had Jean and Storm and Rogue and Mystique in the first, second had Jean, Storm, Mystique and Rogue again (Deathstrike was just a grunt), third had Storm, Jean, Mystique, Kitty and Rogue plus some random grunts in the background (hello there, Psylocke! Ugh) and FC had Mystique, Moira, Angel and Emma (even if she was just sleepwalking through it). Wolverine's had Silverfox and Mariko and Yukio. (These last two give me the feeling that we're maybe on the right path into getting better portrayed females into these movies)
I think that's A LOT better than most comic book movies, just compare it to Blade, Spidey or anything else from the big 2. I'm not saying that it's perfect or anything and all female characters were more or less character assassinated in the films but then so were all characters period. Males, ethnic minorities and those of different nationalities. Nobody was portrayed very well in those and it I don't think it was because of sexism. They could do so much better with almost every character!

But what comes to female lead comic book films outside of X-Men... What do we have?

DC/WB is still doubting whether or not to make WW film and despite constant rumors there are barely any news about BW movie. (And BW is the only female superhero in MCU so far while we have multiple guys!)
Both Elektra and Catwoman sucked balls. They were awful. And so was Supergirl from the 80's. And all these movies failed because they were awful movies period, not because they were female movies. And I think it's so damn obvious to most people. So studios having such reservations about making female lead movies is perplexing to me. I can't honestly deny that male heroes have more room to fail than female heroes and I think it's disappointing.

Maybe it's that studios believe that making female lead action films isn't profitable and I can kind of see that point since classically women aren't as interested in action flicks as guys are. And obviously when you want to cater to guys you make your action heroes guys too. But I think that even if RE and Underworld aren't theatrical masterpieces they prove that female lead action films can be worth making. And that's one of the reasons why I like them even if they're not that good objectively.

So basically what I want to say is that X-Men are by far not the worst offender when it comes to poor portrayal of female characters and that they portray all characters except for a handful more or less equally poorly.
I also get studios' anxiety when it comes to female lead comic book movies to a degree and there are some actually logical reasons for that but I still think that they should try it and give female lead movies more chances to see if a good female lead comic book/superhero/action film could be made and could be profitable. Sure if it fails they might lose money but you gotta lose money to make money and who knows how big of a hit a genuinely great female lead superhero comic book action flick could be!

I'm curious at how Maleficent is going to perform at the box office, considering its main character is a woman.

[Ambaryerno]

I'm curious at how Maleficent is going to perform at the box office, considering its main character is a woman.

I'm more curious how it will perform considering it's absolutely butchering the original cartoon. Maleficent was an awesome villain because she was so thoroughly, irredeemably EVIL. This is a woman who cursed a BABY to die out of nothing more than pure spite over a bruised ego (which they already changed: the curse in "Maleficent" is to make her fall asleep instead).

A sympathetic Maleficent works just about as well as a sympathetic Sabretooth. Y'know, the same guy who raids kindergarten for an afternoon snack.

[JackalsIII]

have they not released any more power videos?

[Project Initiative Cascada]

Are all the people defending the gender equality of this current and previous X-movies even female, because if you are all just generic and entitled fanboys, than most of you have no right to comment or argue against those fans who have every right to criticize the lack of strong female representation in the X-movies.

Here is a tip for you guys that may never experience life in a sexist society, where women are still perceived as inferior and insignificant to the male majority that have all the power and privilege in this world. Why don't you try checking your privilege and listen to what people are trying to enlighten you on instead of feeling you know it all.

We know that these movies are not intended to be sexist but in a lot of ways they end up being so, because they are written/directed/produced by men who don't challenge themselves to think beyond their own perspective and experiences as a privileged member of society just because he is male.

The original trilogy was all over the place with bad depictions and portrayals, even with the highlight being X2, they were all Wolverine-centric and kept certain women in their place. They could have all been better in honouring the X-women.

Now let's focus on the new trilogy.

First Class may have been executed very well, by invigorating the franchise with a fresh cast, new ideas and characters, and setting alongside events of history. But so many of the flaws in the movie can be attributed to how they kept in line with the thinking of 60s. The women were not treated in the same ways as the men, and there was a specific scene for all them where they were sexually objectified and stripped to their undies, or in Mystique's case "scales". All were deemed untrustworthy and excluded from the heroic X-men. And none were leading figures but followers. It also didn't help the movie that the creative team were heavily inspired by the Bond movies of that time which were highly sexist. And don't try to even deny that.

Days of Future Past may well surprise us, but for those in the know, we aren't getting an equal representation of X-women, even though the classic comic book story it was inspired by had that and more. Instead this flick is pandering to men, who love/lust their Wolverine, and we are getting more of new X-males in both time periods instead of seeing the gender imbalance righted. For example, can we just count all the new male mutants we are getting in this movie, compared to the only new female character (Blink)? Because if we do I am sure the number will be outrageous. And how is it fair that we get Quicksilver in this movie and not the Scarlet Witch. If that little girl in the trailer is supposed to be her and they explain that she is too young that would be a poor excuse. And if they make her Lorna and just hint at Wanda being somewhere, (like i have read) then that is going to be twice the injustice. Also what happened to Emma, or Angel, or even Rogue? Who was cut from the movie again! I really do hope we get some kind of Jean scene in the end as have been hinted at, and maybe spoiled for some. Because that might mean the future movies might see a better effort.

And maybe X-Men: Apocalypse will right all the wrongs we have been mentioning so far. But maybe it wont either. Time will tell. But so far we have been given lesser X-women compared to the greater X-men.

Very well said. I agree that Quicksilver's inclusion in the film, without Lorna or Wanda, is certainly ridiculous. I would love to see an X-Film that doesn't center around Wolverine, Xavier, and Magneto. That would be a good start for the next film.