Where do you want the Peter and MJ relationship to go next?

[Electricmastro]

omd/omit will always be controversial because it is a story in which the hero is tricked by the devil and loses and isn’t aware he lost. it goes against everything superheroes are supposed to stand for and makes peter into mephisto’s patsy.

imagine if marvel never resolved hydra-cap and 10 years later we are still reading about nazi steve rogers.

that is why people will still continue to talk about omd.

Speaking of which, someone made a very-in-depth, well-researched video dissecting the way Hydra cap was done and brings up some interesting points.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

omd/omit will always be controversial because it is a story in which the hero is tricked by the devil and loses and isn’t aware he lost. it goes against everything superheroes are supposed to stand for and makes peter into mephisto’s patsy.

imagine if marvel never resolved hydra-cap and 10 years later we are still reading about nazi steve rogers.

that is why people will still continue to talk about omd.

What he said.

Talking smack about OMD is an act of protest. And protest is worthwhile for the effort alone.

The Confederate apologists ran around saying that the Civil War was about states' right and for 100 years and more than that, every movie about the Civil War ran with that lie, with the truth only changing recently but that doesn't devalue the efforts made by people to challenge, correct and overturn made in-between. Obviously OMD isn't on the same moral level or gravity but it's basically an attempt to rewrite stuff and trying to deny something that happened happened.

[WebSlingWonder]

What he said.

Talking smack about OMD is an act of protest. And protest is worthwhile for the effort alone.

The Confederate apologists ran around saying that the Civil War was about states' right and for 100 years and more than that, every movie about the Civil War ran with that lie, with the truth only changing recently but that doesn't devalue the efforts made by people to challenge, correct and overturn made in-between. Obviously OMD isn't on the same moral level or gravity but it's basically an attempt to rewrite stuff and trying to deny something that happened happened.

You lost all my respect even bringing up the Civil War in the first place. This is a goddamn comic book character. Seriously.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You lost all my respect even bringing up the Civil War in the first place. This is a goddamn comic book character. Seriously.

I am sorry for that. What do you think we should do? Not talk about OMD, you want me in particular to not talk about OMD? What do you suggest?

[WebSlingWonder]

I am sorry for that. What do you think we should do? Not talk about OMD, you want me in particular to not talk about OMD? What do you suggest?

What I suggest is just...looking at it from a different point of view. Not necessarily agreeing, but just looking at it from a different point. OMD is an elephant, yes. But it's not the end of Spider-Man - he's still got a good amount of stories ahead of him. I know the Slott run was inconsistent (and feel free to dislike that one just fine) and the status quo is in flux right now, but if we look at each story as its own thing, I think that helps ease the pain of OMD. Because if not, then we're always reading with one eye closed. We need both eyes to see the big picture.

For instance, we both agreed on liking Spider-Man: Life Story. Now granted, they skipped over OMD (no surprise), but it was a modern Spider-Man story that was solid. We also liked Chip Zdarsky's Spectacular run, a post-OMD story that was a solid exploration of Spider-Man. There's also Spencer's current run, Tom Taylor's FNSM run, Dan Slott's early stuff pre-Superior...there's a lot of good that happened despite OMD and the chaos of the mythos back then. Does that make OMD right? No. But it means that Spider-Man didn't die with OMD. The character still exists. As for the moral victory for Mephisto...I'll give you that. But if Spencer's current run is anything to go by, I think it's safe to say he'll organically start to weave in those elements and bring us a really compelling story that we would never have gotten.

As for these boards, I think it would be incredibly helpful to lessen the impact that OMD has on us. You said it yourself a couple of months ago: there are plenty of other mythos topics to talk about with this character! And that's exciting! Spider-Man is a character with a wide variety of story beats and characters to talk about that this, while being a negative, does not have to be the only thing we talk about.

[Lee]

Harassment is a specific legal concept. It doesn't involve harping or complaining about a post online. Quesada and others are public figures, and it's within the rights of anyone to judge and criticize their work and actions.

I agree that nothing justifies harassment, I just don't see how people complaining about OMD and so on is harassment in any real sense.

Harassment is stuff like chasing Kelly Marie Tran off Instagram or something like that. I don't get this attitude where people think all fan backlashes are the same. There's a difference between backlashes against TLJ or stuff like Jason Aaron got for Jane Thor and backlash that is rooted entirely in creative direction and execution like with OMD or the Game of Thrones finale where fan outrage and anger is directed to a worthy and deserving target.

Every time you talk about a Spider-Man comic you didn't like, or a story decision you didn't like, you go out of your way to take digs at the writers, attack their character and motivations. It creates a toxic and unwelcoming atmosphere.

Like - "fan outrage and anger is directed to a worthy and deserving target" - that's absolutely appalling. "Worthy and deserving target". That's horrendous. The CBR forums weren't supposed to operate this way after the shutdown and reboot.

You lost all my respect even bringing up the Civil War in the first place. This is a goddamn comic book character. Seriously.

Agreed. It's appalling.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

What I suggest is just...looking at it from a different point of view. Not necessarily agreeing, but just looking at it from a different point. OMD is an elephant, yes. But it's not the end of Spider-Man - he's still got a good amount of stories ahead of him. I know the Slott run was inconsistent (and feel free to dislike that one just fine) and the status quo is in flux right now, but if we look at each story as its own thing, I think that helps ease the pain of OMD. Because if not, then we're always reading with one eye closed. We need both eyes to see the big picture.

For instance, we both agreed on liking Spider-Man: Life Story. Now granted, they skipped over OMD (no surprise), but it was a modern Spider-Man story that was solid. We also liked Chip Zdarsky's Spectacular run, a post-OMD story that was a solid exploration of Spider-Man. There's also Spencer's current run, Tom Taylor's FNSM run, Dan Slott's early stuff pre-Superior...there's a lot of good that happened despite OMD and the chaos of the mythos back then. Does that make OMD right? No. But it means that Spider-Man didn't die with OMD. The character still exists. As for the moral victory for Mephisto...I'll give you that. But if Spencer's current run is anything to go by, I think it's safe to say he'll organically start to weave in those elements and bring us a really compelling story that we would never have gotten.

As for these boards, I think it would be incredibly helpful to lessen the impact that OMD has on us. You said it yourself a couple of months ago: there are plenty of other mythos topics to talk about with this character! And that's exciting! Spider-Man is a character with a wide variety of story beats and characters to talk about that this, while being a negative, does not have to be the only thing we talk about.

I generally think that OMD ruined Spider-Man in 616 Continuity, preventing writers and artists from being honest and clear about characters. But it's also true that writers do the best they can with what they got. That's true of any period. As bad as Byrne/Mackie reviving Aunt May was, JMS did a great job salvaging their mess. It's not an accident that AU Spider-Man tends to be more defining and influential over the last decade and so than 616.

So yeah I agree.

...

I have never once made attacks on any creator's personal life. I have attacked the work, the writing and weak execution yes. I have also been sarcastic, critical, and snarking. Yes, I'll admit to that. But again, genuinely harmful and toxic stuff is ComicsGate, GamerGate and stuff like that. And people need to accept that. I generally do think we should accept that creators, even talented ones, are capable of mistakes and can be taken down pegs, two or three. That's how criticism and discussions have been about comics since the start, and I have been far more polite than a lot of the letters printed in the backpages of old issues of ASM.

[boots]

if OMD rage had any benefits; i’d say rage away

i’m just not convinced that it does

[Lee]

I generally do think we should accept that creators, even talented ones, are capable of mistakes and can be taken down pegs, two or three.

Appalling.

[WebSlingWonder]

I generally think that OMD ruined Spider-Man in 616 Continuity, preventing writers and artists from being honest and clear about characters. But it's also true that writers do the best they can with what they got. That's true of any period. As bad as Byrne/Mackie reviving Aunt May was, JMS did a great job salvaging their mess. It's not an accident that AU Spider-Man tends to be more defining and influential over the last decade and so than 616.

So yeah I agree.

Can we come to an agreement then on just how much we talk about OMD? I'll promise to lay off and back off if you stop talking as much about OMD (I'm not changing your opinion of it; just broaching other topics for Spider-Man and other series.)

[TinkerSpider]

ments and bring us a really compelling story that we would never have gotten.

As for these boards, I think it would be incredibly helpful to lessen the impact that OMD has on us. You said it yourself a couple of months ago: there are plenty of other mythos topics to talk about with this character! And that's exciting! Spider-Man is a character with a wide variety of story beats and characters to talk about that this, while being a negative, does not have to be the only thing we talk about.

the title of the original post is “where do you want peter and mj’s relationship to go next.”’ of course omd is going to come up.

if you would rather not talk about omd perhaps avoid these topics?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Can we come to an agreement then on just how much we talk about OMD?

OMD happened in 2007 just when social media was emerging, so that must be one reason why it's never died. The controversy about the Clone Saga died (albeit the fact that it failed and got undone meant that it was easier to forgive too).

So the existence of social media and so on might be one reason why the anger behind OMD simply doesn't go away.

[WebSlingWonder]

OMD happened in 2007 just when social media was emerging, so that must be one reason why it's never died. The controversy about the Clone Saga died (albeit the fact that it failed and got undone meant that it was easier to forgive too).

So the existence of social media and so on might be one reason why the anger behind OMD simply doesn't go away.

Yes, I understand that part. I'm just saying maybe for a while we just stop bringing it up each time, you know?

[H-E-D]

omd/omit will always be controversial because it is a story in which the hero is tricked by the devil and loses and isn’t aware he lost. it goes against everything superheroes are supposed to stand for and makes peter into mephisto’s patsy.

imagine if marvel never resolved hydra-cap and 10 years later we are still reading about nazi steve rogers.

that is why people will still continue to talk about omd.

You really out here trying to say that "magical divorce" is as bad as "Neo-Nazi"?

[boots]

the title of the original post is “where do you want peter and mj’s relationship to go next.”’ of course omd is going to come up.

if you would rather not talk about omd perhaps avoid these topics?

the topic could be “tentacles for days: otto and may’s home video” and OMD would still come up