Seriously how can anyone support Donald Trump?

[DrNewGod]

And the fact that dems are still doing nothing to win over voters in rural America and the rust belt states that swung the last election to Trump.

I live in one of those states and the clip of the Dad who paid for his daughter's education through a lot of work, saving, and sacrifice where he confronted Warren about a refund is far more powerful here than any dem promises we know they probably can't keep. If anything I expect my state to go stronger for Trump than it did in 2016 especially if Warren or Sanders is the nominee.

he chose to pay for his daughter's education. Warren's suggestion (and it's a longshot that she wins the primary) was to spare future families that burden. his whining about the unfairness of it makes him sound entitled. surprise pal, college is expensive. my parents held me accountable for my grades. so i got a scholarship. and i still had a miserable experience paying back the rest of my tuition. i'm all for them making college more affordable for the next generation. better than tax dollars being wasted on more walls or missiles (the surplus is embarrassing). Trump doesn't give a damn about rural america. farms were going bankrupt left and right last year because of his trade policies. he reacted with handouts while decrying socialism.

I agree with you Michael Watkins. It doesn't make TriggerWarning's assessment wrong. I am DEEPLY nervous about how this goes in the Fall.

[TriggerWarning]

he chose to pay for his daughter's education. Warren's suggestion (and it's a longshot that she wins the primary) was to spare future families that burden. his whining about the unfairness of it makes him sound entitled. surprise pal, college is expensive. my parents held me accountable for my grades. so i got a scholarship. and i still had a miserable experience paying back the rest of my tuition. i'm all for them making college more affordable for the next generation. better than tax dollars being wasted on more walls or missiles (the surplus is embarrassing). Trump doesn't give a damn about rural america. farms were going bankrupt left and right last year because of his trade policies. he reacted with handouts while decrying socialism.

I agree with the Dad because I'm in his shoes right now. I saved from the moment my kids were born for college putting money aside into a college saving account that grew like a 401k.

My daughter is now in her sophomore year and zero student debt so far with 100% of the money coming out of the money I invested. Partly because unlike so many who don't plan she is going to community college for the first two years and living at home. She'll have to go a regular college next year but even so it will be paid for even with the increase in housing and food costs. Senior year will be sorta iffy if there is enough money but most will be paid for.

So yes like that Dad it really angers me to hear Warren and Sanders promising free college to the families and students who didn't save or chose expensive schools. There are grants for those who are actually poor but I and others shouldn't have to pay through tax dollars for those who didn't save or choose wisely. I'm not rich by any means, after 23 years at the same job and tons of overtime (24,000 of it) I passed 90,000 for the first time ever last year. I'm solidly middle class which is too much for her to get grants yet we affording college. It can be done.

[Tendrin]

I agree with the Dad because I'm in his shoes right now. I saved from the moment my kids were born for college putting money aside into a college saving account that grew like a 401k.

My daughter is now in her sophomore year and zero student debt so far with 100% of the money coming out of the money I invested. Partly because unlike so many who don't plan she is going to community college for the first two years and living at home. She'll have to go a regular college next year but even so it will be paid for even with the increase in housing and food costs. Senior year will be sorta iffy if there is enough money but most will be paid for.

So yes like that Dad it really angers me to hear Warren and Sanders promising free college to the families and students who didn't save or chose expensive schools. There are grants for those who are actually poor but I and others shouldn't have to pay through tax dollars for those who didn't save or choose wisely. I'm not rich by any means, after 23 years at the same job and tons of overtime (24,000 of it) I passed 90,000 for the first time ever last year. I'm solidly middle class which is too much for her to get grants yet we affording college. It can be done.

"This thing about my life sucked so everyone else's should suck too!"

I see this take a lot. It remains a profoundly blinkered one.

[Malvolio]

I agree with the Dad because I'm in his shoes right now. I saved from the moment my kids were born for college putting money aside into a college saving account that grew like a 401k.

My daughter is now in her sophomore year and zero student debt so far with 100% of the money coming out of the money I invested. Partly because unlike so many who don't plan she is going to community college for the first two years and living at home. She'll have to go a regular college next year but even so it will be paid for even with the increase in housing and food costs. Senior year will be sorta iffy if there is enough money but most will be paid for.

So yes like that Dad it really angers me to hear Warren and Sanders promising free college to the families and students who didn't save or chose expensive schools. There are grants for those who are actually poor but I and others shouldn't have to pay through tax dollars for those who didn't save or choose wisely. I'm not rich by any means, after 23 years at the same job and tons of overtime (24,000 of it) I passed 90,000 for the first time ever last year. I'm solidly middle class which is too much for her to get grants yet we affording college. It can be done.

This is the same mentality that says everyone on welfare is lazy. That's not it at all. A lot of people are struggling at low wage jobs and just don't have enough to save for their kids' college education.

[numberthirty]

Without trying to pass judgement on someone's take...

While I can sort of see where that dad is coming from?

Someone has to be the person who takes that punch in the nose to turn around a system where someone has to do what TriggerWarning laid out to put one child through college without debt.

Let's change that scenario a little...

The dad in that scenario isn't as lucky. While he could make it to that wage, he winds up in a wheelchair after a car crash.

Does the plan still work then?

Let's make that dad a little less lucky. He dies after being hit by a drunk driver.

Can the child and the family still make the plan work after he is gone? Even if they luck into collecting any sort of a settlement from the drunk driver?

One guy's take...

That dad that Warren talked to taking a punch in the nose now is worth folks never having to consider the above again.

Never mind the reality that "Didn't Save..." gets complicated pretty quickly.

[Malvolio]

Without trying to pass judgement on someone's take...

While I can sort of see where that dad is coming from?

Someone has to be the person who takes that punch in the nose to turn around a system where someone has to do what TriggerWarning laid out to put one child through college without debt.

Let's change that scenario a little...

The dad in that scenario isn't as lucky. While he could make it to that wage, he winds up in a wheelchair after a car crash.

Does the plan still work then?

Let's make that dad a little less lucky. He dies after being hit by a drunk driver.

Can the child and the family still make the plan work after he is gone? Even if they luck into collecting any sort of a settlement from the drunk driver?

One guy's take...

That dad that Warren talked to taking a punch in the nose now is worth folks never having to consider the above again.

Never mind the reality that "Didn't Save..." gets complicated pretty quickly.

For once, I agree 100% with #30. Conservatives act like anyone who's had some bad breaks made them all themselves when the reality is often quite different.

[DrNewGod]

For once, I agree 100% with #30. Conservatives act like anyone who's had some bad breaks made them all themselves when the reality is often quite different.

The American myth of the purely self-made man is a nastily sharp, two-edged sword.

ETA: Still, there's something important in what TriggerWarning says. Progressives must learn how to talk with at least some rural voters, and must learn how to do it without a condescending tone. Otherwise, they are going to continue to find themselves wondering how they could have lost to such an obviously knuckle-dragging lout again. Confidence in the moral superiority of one's position will be cold comfort whilst watching the courts continue to pack up with Oligarchical Lackies, whose rulings will haunt us for decades.

[Michael Watkins]

I agree with you Michael Watkins. It doesn't make TriggerWarning's assessment wrong. I am DEEPLY nervous about how this goes in the Fall.

sure. that is fair. i understand the thought process. it just feels, pardon the term, sociopathic to me. maybe it's because i'm the oldest of 3. i'm used to things being "unfair" in the interest of harmony. not everyone has two parents. those who do might not be in a position to save money. the dad is asking to be recompensated for being a hero to his daughter. but i'd bet money on him being against, say, reparations for descendants of slavery.

[shooshoomanjoe]

I agree with the Dad because I'm in his shoes right now. I saved from the moment my kids were born for college putting money aside into a college saving account that grew like a 401k.

My daughter is now in her sophomore year and zero student debt so far with 100% of the money coming out of the money I invested. Partly because unlike so many who don't plan she is going to community college for the first two years and living at home. She'll have to go a regular college next year but even so it will be paid for even with the increase in housing and food costs. Senior year will be sorta iffy if there is enough money but most will be paid for.

So yes like that Dad it really angers me to hear Warren and Sanders promising free college to the families and students who didn't save or chose expensive schools. There are grants for those who are actually poor but I and others shouldn't have to pay through tax dollars for those who didn't save or choose wisely. I'm not rich by any means, after 23 years at the same job and tons of overtime (24,000 of it) I passed 90,000 for the first time ever last year. I'm solidly middle class which is too much for her to get grants yet we affording college. It can be done.

I'll never understand why the far right want to saddle the next generation with debt.

[Kirby101]

I hope trigger realizes that Community College is affordable because it is heavily tax subsidized. In other words, Socialism.

[Jack Dracula]

I agree with the Dad because I'm in his shoes right now. I saved from the moment my kids were born for college putting money aside into a college saving account that grew like a 401k.

My daughter is now in her sophomore year and zero student debt so far with 100% of the money coming out of the money I invested. Partly because unlike so many who don't plan she is going to community college for the first two years and living at home. She'll have to go a regular college next year but even so it will be paid for even with the increase in housing and food costs. Senior year will be sorta iffy if there is enough money but most will be paid for.

So yes like that Dad it really angers me to hear Warren and Sanders promising free college to the families and students who didn't save or chose expensive schools. There are grants for those who are actually poor but I and others shouldn't have to pay through tax dollars for those who didn't save or choose wisely. I'm not rich by any means, after 23 years at the same job and tons of overtime (24,000 of it) I passed 90,000 for the first time ever last year. I'm solidly middle class which is too much for her to get grants yet we affording college. It can be done.

The Free College for Everyone plan isn't likey to take the form of all for-profit colleges in the US suddenly throwing open there doors and letting everyone in for free.
It will likely be on a case-by-case basis where each students financial situation is evaluated and an appropriate amount of their education is paid for according to a set of academic criteria needing to be met.
You may qualify to get most if not all of the money you spend on college covered, provided your child maintains a certain GPA and you fall within a certain tax bracket.

[SquirrelMan]

I'll never understand why the far right want to saddle the next generation with debt.

By Trigger Warning's logic, they never should have ended the Vietnam war, because if one generation of Americans had to send their kids to get crippled and killed, it would be unfair to not subject all future generations to those horrors, too.

[Odd Rödney]

Because it doesn't really matter what any politician does or says to a lot of Americans. The only thing people care about is which political party that particular politician belongs to.

That is profoundly depressing. Like we're living in the age of the death of critical thinking.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia][COLOR="#000080"]

I'll never understand why the far right want to saddle the next generation with debt.

It boggles the mind.

[Odd Rödney]

not everyone has two parents. those who do might not be in a position to save money. the dad is asking to be recompensated for being a hero to his daughter. but i'd bet money on him being against, say, reparations for descendants of slavery.

I'd be willing to make that bet too.

My big takeaway regarding the right in the age of Trump is that they never believed in the things they've said they do to in the past. They're clearly not opposed to big government, they don't really give a damn about the constitution and they certainly don't act like people who hold conservative values. They plunge the country into debt to give money to their corporate criminal friends while pretending to represent the middle class. They purge voters of color to ensure their victory (looking at you Georgia). They 're happy ending important long term relationships with traditional allies. The divide isn't between Republican and Democrat. It's about whether you want an Oligarchy or a Democracy. And I am dreadfully concerned about the 2020 election.

[DrNewGod]

...My big takeaway regarding the right in the age of Trump is that they never believed in the things they've said they do to in the past.

Sure they do. As long as it was confined to their own folk.

The divide isn't between Republican and Democrat. It's about whether you want an Oligarchy or a Democracy. And I am dreadfully concerned about the 2020 election.

. We agree and I fear as well.