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  1. #16
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Trump appealed to the poorly educated, to the racists, the xenophobes, the misogynists, the downtrodden white folks unable to handle or accept no longer at the top of the societal ladder. Trump appealed to hypocritical bible thumpers, even though he possesses very little to no morality and singlehandedly broke most of the Ten Commandments simply because he promised to kill Roe v. Wade if elected. While Dubya has been an overall worse president (ignoring warnings that led to 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, the Iraq War), the negative effect Trump will have on our democracy, our standing in the world and the strained, if not broken relationships with our global allies will be felt long after he’s mercifully gone from office.
    I think this is essentially it. He appeals to the ignorant, the uneducated and the stupid, to racists and sexists (whether consciously so or through ignorance) and the people Michael Moore talked about, the downtrodden who feel ignored and who believe or hope his lies are not lies and that he will do something for them while unable to see that Democrat policies are what would help them.

    In some ways, his is a personality cult. For many people, he's a wish fulfillment fantasy, spouting the hatreds and resentments they can't express in a world they consider to be too politically correct even though what they really want is to make America white again. For a lot of people, especially older people, maybe they feel like he's pushing the world back to something they agree with and understand.

    In terms of actual policies, maybe W was even worse. But, in terms of what he represents and the sheer hatred he's fanning, Trump is far worse. He's also a short-term gain and a long term disaster for the Republican party. He appeals to a voting block, a generation of voters, that is dying off.

    I think it is critical that he loses in 2020 as a way of delivering hard evidence to the Republican party that they need to change. A win would only reaffirm to them that this appeal to the worst racial/ ethnic/ religious bigotry is what will get them votes.
    Power with Girl is better.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member CellarDweller's Avatar
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    You have to separate what Trump says from what he actually does as they are two different things. Policy wise he isn't nearly as bad as the unhinged on the left make him out to be. Its what he says and how he says it that makes so many on the left get unhinged but thats also what many like about him too because they see it as for once a president is being honest instead of using political doublespeak or shifting their views with the wind to please their audience as recent candidates like Hilary Clinton and Mitt Romney would do.

    And as KnightoftheLake said Trump is nowhere near as bad as George W Bush.
    Bush did not empower factions of folks with what they WANT to hear versus what they NEED to hear.

    Bush's antics EVERYBODY would agree was bad for everybody.

    Folks EXCUSE the Trump wave and whoever got empowered by him.

    Bush would never say certain folks were nice guys after someone got ran over during a march. Nor would he try to put the NFL out of business over a football player.
    Not try to fight with media over every little thing.

  4. #19
    Surfing With The Alien Spike-X's Avatar
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    Because they're either evil, or stupid, or both.

  5. #20
    Surfing With The Alien Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    You have to separate what Trump says from what he actually does as they are two different things. Policy wise he isn't nearly as bad as the unhinged on the left make him out to be. Its what he says and how he says it that makes so many on the left get unhinged but thats also what many like about him too because they see it as for once a president is being honest instead of using political doublespeak or shifting their views with the wind to please their audience as recent candidates like Hilary Clinton and Mitt Romney would do.
    Wow. Literally everything you said here is bullshit.

  6. #21
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    I've noticed Trump's pep rallies went from praising himself to being a bitch fest.

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Bush did not empower factions of folks with what they WANT to hear versus what they NEED to hear.

    Bush's antics EVERYBODY would agree was bad for everybody.

    Folks EXCUSE the Trump wave and whoever got empowered by him.

    Bush would never say certain folks were nice guys after someone got ran over during a march. Nor would he try to put the NFL out of business over a football player.
    Not try to fight with media over every little thing.
    I'm gonna have to disagree with that one. I have 2 relatives that during his presidency insisted he never made any mistakes (and this was post-Katrina) with one (and active Marine at the time) wishing he could have a third term. The other conservatives in my family only started admitting he wasn't great when he hit the lame duck period of his presidency at the earliest or when Trump became the apparent nominee and his trashing of Dubya became right wing gospel at the latest.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusanagi View Post
    I'm in agreement that the actions of W are far worse than what Trump has done (so far.)

    That said, while I don't Trump is the worst president in terms of actions/accomplishments. I do believe he has a strong case for most incompetent/corrupt
    I think Dubya is easily the most incompetent president in US history simply because I don't believe he was every actually in charge. You ever see one of those infomercials where they hire a washed up actor to hock a product? Thats basically what Bush was. After eight years of Clinton the republicans who worked in the Reagan administration wanted a return to power but none of them were likely to be able to win on their own. They needed someone whose identity gave people nostalgia for Reagan. Since Reagan's kids weren't really an option that left a Bush kid and who better than Dubya since he was governor of Texas. Didn't matter that he was utterly incompetent at everything he'd done prior to being governor and the governor of Texas is actually a pretty powerless position. It was about the Bush name.

    So Cheney, Rumsfeld, and other power brokers from the Reagan admin prop Dubya up as their spokeperson sock puppet and pull his strings throughout the candidacy and then the presidency. It was never more obvious than the morning of 9/11 when Dumbya after learning of the attacks sat befuddled on a stage for nine minutes while waiting for his masters to tell him what to do. A real leader would have stood up, apologized to the kids, and then went out and immediately got on the phone with someone getting briefed. Instead he just waited for the real leaders to decide what he should do.

    Being a sock puppet is far more incompetent than what Trump is now because there is no doubt Trump in charge. He might be the Mad King of Westeros but he is in charge.

  9. #24
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    I've noticed Trump's pep rallies went from praising himself to being a bitch fest.
    I've noticed that as well. For Trump who lives for grudges he's either unable or unwilling to bury, the rallies offers him a perfect opportunity to air his numerous grievances to a pliant audience eager to hear every lie, exaggeration and gripe that comes out of his mouth.
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  10. #25
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    I think Dubya is easily the most incompetent president in US history simply because I don't believe he was every actually in charge. You ever see one of those infomercials where they hire a washed up actor to hock a product? Thats basically what Bush was. After eight years of Clinton the republicans who worked in the Reagan administration wanted a return to power but none of them were likely to be able to win on their own. They needed someone whose identity gave people nostalgia for Reagan. Since Reagan's kids weren't really an option that left a Bush kid and who better than Dubya since he was governor of Texas. Didn't matter that he was utterly incompetent at everything he'd done prior to being governor and the governor of Texas is actually a pretty powerless position. It was about the Bush name.

    So Cheney, Rumsfeld, and other power brokers from the Reagan admin prop Dubya up as their spokeperson sock puppet and pull his strings throughout the candidacy and then the presidency. It was never more obvious than the morning of 9/11 when Dumbya after learning of the attacks sat befuddled on a stage for nine minutes while waiting for his masters to tell him what to do. A real leader would have stood up, apologized to the kids, and then went out and immediately got on the phone with someone getting briefed. Instead he just waited for the real leaders to decide what he should do.

    Being a sock puppet is far more incompetent than what Trump is now because there is no doubt Trump in charge. He might be the Mad King of Westeros but he is in charge.
    Some (like me) could, and have opined that Turtle Boy McConnell is the real power behind the throne and is the only thing keeping Trump from being thrown out of office. I've said that Trump is McConnell's useful idiot because he's helping the GOP and their long game of stacking the courts with right wing ideologues so they can screw over the American people for decades to come. The day Trump outlives that usefulness, he'll be discarded, plain and simple.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  11. #26

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    i predict that a lot of people will distance themselves from Trump after he's out of office. only the hardcore deplorables will remain.

  12. #27
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I'm gonna have to disagree with that one. I have 2 relatives that during his presidency insisted he never made any mistakes (and this was post-Katrina) with one (and active Marine at the time) wishing he could have a third term. The other conservatives in my family only started admitting he wasn't great when he hit the lame duck period of his presidency at the earliest or when Trump became the apparent nominee and his trashing of Dubya became right wing gospel at the latest.
    There will always be people like that. There are people who, to this day, insist Nixon did not do anything wrong (but, of course, it's horrible that the Senate did not ratify Clinton's impeachment). Even people who did not want Trump to become president (he's just better than Hillary) have now rationalized that he's a good president because they don't want to perceive themselves as being in favor of an irrational, self-serving, hate-mongering jerk.
    Power with Girl is better.

  13. #28
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    There is also the fact that people are racist and ethnically bigoted but they don't want to perceive themselves as such. So when Trump takes a minor issue like border security and makes it the main issue of his whole presidency, suddenly it becomes some sort of major issue because these non-white people are coming into the country and taking jobs none of them would ever take to begin with. Also, while harping on how he's an outsider, Trump is a master politician and understands as few ever have the art or power of the lie. People wonder how he can spout blatant lies that even the worst/ best politicians would balk at. It's because he understands how to present it and that it doesn't matter whether it's a lie or not, only that it's what people want to believe.
    Power with Girl is better.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    Wow. Literally everything you said here is bullshit.
    wow what a thought provoking reply. Not here to support Trump either but I don't insult his supporters or follow the self gratifying narrative that the future and progress are at hand if only certain people would just go away. The working class of this country won't just "go away" and that he speaks to issues that are not being addressed by current and former politicians should be looked at with clear eyes. Why for example does racist rhetoric work? Class division is my answer but yours may vary oh wait we already have yours Spike.
    Last edited by Xheight; 04-29-2019 at 09:20 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    There is also the fact that people are racist and ethnically bigoted but they don't want to perceive themselves as such. So when Trump takes a minor issue like border security and makes it the main issue of his whole presidency, suddenly it becomes some sort of major issue because these non-white people are coming into the country and taking jobs none of them would ever take to begin with. Also, while harping on how he's an outsider, Trump is a master politician and understands as few ever have the art or power of the lie. People wonder how he can spout blatant lies that even the worst/ best politicians would balk at. It's because he understands how to present it and that it doesn't matter whether it's a lie or not, only that it's what people want to believe.
    Well at least we have some interpretation of motive here but I find the psychological insufficient to grasp the very real material job market manipulation that the working class experiences. I am reminded of a recent story about some Maryland crab factory complaining about visas to cut crabs because locals won't do the work anymore. Hello, so paying people crappy wages below the poverty line and putting the burden on the state is the answer to a private company's problem in exploiting a natural resource.

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