"Avengers Endgame" - Missing details and potential future events

[TheDarman]

Killing Thanos left a big ol' time plot hole in the movie. Killing past Thanos essential erase all that happened in Infinity War. Yeah it was a emotional jackpot moment but it was the wrong thing to do. Just sending Thanos back to his own time with his memory erased would have kept the ending basically the same without creating any time headaches.

Only presuming a Back to the Future style time travel set-up, which they obliterated as their version of time travel anyway. In the MCU, time travel doesn't result in changes to the past--it creates another reality. So, for example, by going back to the '70s, both Captain America and Tony Stark created an alternate version of that time period. It's pretty small in difference from the base MCU, all things considered. However, there are enough changes where it will change a few things about the universe. The same is especially true with what they did with Loki and the aftermath of The Avengers. Loki's getaway wasn't supposed to happen, Cap getting the scepter certainly wasn't supposed to occur either, the Ancient One and Banner weren't supposed to have their conversation, and past Cap and future Cap were never supposed to fight. This is a rather large change to this alternate reality--one that will probably have relatively devastating consequences for it. However, it is impossible to know for sure.

The biggest change is, of course, what you mentioned. When Old Nebula brought Thanos into the future, it only solidified that this alternate universe Thanos was now totally different from the previous universe's. That's why killing Old Nebula didn't kill New Nebula. She had become an alternate reality version of herself the second New Nebula stepped back in time. The same is true with Thanos--it doesn't undo what the original prime Thanos did. However, it does stop Thanos from being able to execute his plan in the alternate reality that was created by their time jump. So, Tony Stark wiping out Thanos and his army not only saves his 2023 universe--it saves the new universe that still is set in the year 2014.

I know a lot of people have been pointing out issues with this timeline stuff though. Some people have had the question about how Captain America went back to these other realities. Well, time is all relative. So, while days have passed since their insertion in these realities, my guess is that they can place Cap directly after the time that they "synced up" in that new universe and continue to alter the events of that universe (this time by replacing the stones where they go). This new reality that has already been created, thus, will not further branch off. As Hulk said, they can replace them as they left. Cap will go back in time to all these places and replace the stones in these realities so that no alternate reality exists without the stones where they should be.

The biggest question mark then is how did Captain America come back as old Cap? Well, the simplest answer seems to be the most logical one: Steve went back in time, created an alternative reality, and moved forward in time as usual. In this universe, there are two Caps. One does eventually get unfrozen (when that is is hard to say). One is able to just reunite with Peggy immediately. He's able to have his life. Of course, we know that he also has the ability to perform his duties as Captain America--which means that he would probably further affect the timeline by saving Bucky in this universe from years of torment. I would actually anticipate that some of these changes, while positive in the short term, could yield consequences dangerous for the universe in the long run. All this time meddling and creating alternative realities, I'm guessing will lead to Kang the Conqueror coming from one of the futures of these realities to the prime MCU, where his counterpart never dealt with these consequences.

[bobellis75]

According to the rules of the Soul Stone when Cap returned the stone back to the planet shouldn't he have gotten a soul back in exchange? Would have been a way for Natasha to come back. Instead of Cap returning back to the time platform Black Widow could have popped up instead.

I don't think that't how the soul stone works. No refunds!

[Michael Watkins]

I don't think that't how the soul stone works. No refunds!

presumably, her soul is within the gem; unless it works differently than the comics.

[Midvillian1322]

presumably, her soul is within the gem; unless it works differently than the comics.

Well the stone got destroyed. So the stone would have to be just a gate way to Soul Wolrd for them to be able to get her out. But yea the catch is if you go into ssve Gamora you have to save Nat too. Especialy since Thor involved because he knows she died the same way and would share the same fate. I mean they could write a reason Nat has to stay dead while Gamora can be brought back. But still could be a road block if you dont want Nat to come back

[CliffHanger2]

Saw it a lot of the time travel stuff didn't add up. Banner's theory that "Once you travel back to the past your past becomes your present." doesn't really hold up to me. Maybe if it was the dofp time travel where Wolverine traveled back and woke up inside his own mind/body yeah. But in AEG they actually were bumping into their past selves doing the same stuff they did in the past. Then the Cap thing only thing that makes sense is he jumped into an alt time line but it was never shown or said-so leaves some questions.

Thinking though if Gamora's back same thing can be done with Widow.

[Arsenal]

Saw it a lot of the time travel stuff didn't add up. Banner's theory that "Once you travel back to the past your past becomes your present." doesn't really hold up to me. Maybe if it was the dofp time travel where Wolverine traveled back and woke up inside his own mind/body yeah. But in AEG they actually were bumping into their past selves doing the same stuff they did in the past. Then the Cap thing only thing that makes sense is he jumped into an alt time line but it was never shown or said-so leaves some questions.

Thinking though if Gamora's back same thing can be done with Widow.

Banner's theory is that time only ever moves forward by building what came before it. So you can't change your "future" by changing your "past" because those events already occurred. Instead, you create an alternate reality where the event never occurred but it has no impact on your future because your future already happened.

[CliffHanger2]

Banner's theory is that time only ever moves forward by building what came before it. So you can't change your "future" by changing your "past" because those events already occurred. Instead, you create an alternate reality where the event never occurred but it has no impact on your future because your future already happened.

Yeah but it wasn't that the Thanos snap never happened they just reversed it with the Hulk snap but it still happened.

[Arsenal]

Yeah but it wasn't that the Thanos snap never happened they just reversed it with the Hulk snap but it still happened.

So what's the connection between Hulk undoing the snap and Banner's theory of time travel not holding up? Because I'm not seeing it.

[CliffHanger2]

So what's the connection between Hulk undoing the snap and Banner's theory of time travel not holding up? Because I'm not seeing it.

Because they weren't in an alternate reality where the Thanos snap never happened.

[Arsenal]

Because they weren't in an alternate reality where the Thanos snap never happened.

Well yeah, the entire point of Banner's theory was to establish that the Avengers couldn't go back in time to prevent the snap from ever happening because if they did, it wouldn't solve the problem (the snap). A reality would exist where the snap never happened but it wouldn't be the MCU one.

[Midvillian1322]

Because they weren't in an alternate reality where the Thanos snap never happened.

Yea the whole point was that they couldnt undo it they just needed to get the Stones and bring them all back. It didnt make the snap not happen all those people lost 5years of they're lives.

[CliffHanger2]

I get it. But it still doesn't solve the problem of your past becoming your present when you go back to the past when your past self is still there. That only works if it's dofp time travel.

Then Cap returns the stones to right before the point they stole them so....ugh

[Arsenal]

I get it. But it still doesn't solve the problem of your past becoming your present when you go back to the past when your past self is still there. That only works if it's dofp time travel.

Then Cap returns the stones to right before the point they stole them so....ugh

But it does. The fact that a 2023 and 2012 can exist in the exact same time demonstrates that when you travel to a different year, time still moves forward regardless of the year you end up in. It didn’t matter if Cap was in 2018, 2023, 2012 or 1970 because it was always his present & what comes next will always be his future.

In DOFP, your past is your past. When they go back in time, they take control of their former selves and can make decisions that were different than the ones originally made which actively changes the future of what’s to come. That’s not the case in Endgame because your past already happened so your future can’t be changed regardless of how far back you travel.

[CliffHanger2]

But it does. The fact that a 2023 and 2012 can exist in the exact same time demonstrates that when you travel to a different year, time still moves forward regardless of the year you end up in. It didn’t matter if Cap was in 2018, 2023, 2012 or 1970 because it was always his present & what comes next will always be his future.

In DOFP, your past is your past. When they go back in time, they take control of their former selves and can make decisions that were different than the ones originally made which actively changes the future of what’s to come. That’s not the case in Endgame because your past already happened so your future can’t be changed regardless of how far back you travel.

Okay but what about the other Caps in those times? Wasn't it their present too?

[Arsenal]

Okay but what about the other Caps in those times? Wasn't it their present too?

Yeah, all of them were in the present at that point in time. Even though they are technically the same person, they are all very different people shaped by the experiences that lead them to that moment.