March sales figures

[JKtheMac]

JktheMac:"Even if we look at the low sales of that Diamond clearly state, you in no way have an argument! Just look at this page here to see how you are wrong"

Me: *Goes to Page*

Comichron: "You've reached a zone beyond time and space..."

Me: They must be pumping the wrong teat for that milk....

Link corrected above. Note there is zero data for digital subscription so digital in general in under reported.

[Konja7]

Sorry. You want us to run around and prove to YOU that the comics industry isn't dying? You are the one making the claims. We remain to be convinced this is an argument worth having. Even if we only focus on Diamond, this yearly rundown of the actual year on year data is revealing. I will let you educate yourself on the size of the digital and book channel markets. ICv2 and Comichron get together to analyse them every year (also on that page). We are due the 2018 figures in July.

I'm confused. DragonsChi doesn't make the claims that comic industry isn't dying, so he/she doesn't need to demostrate this.

Instead, DragonsChi seems to think that the industry has problems and uses the sales to shops as evidence.

As some say that digital sales are significant and help the current market, it would be good to have proof that it is correct.

[Ultramorph]

Ah, the monthly “Comics are dying, man! Wake up, Marvel is doomed!” parade is right on time.

[JKtheMac]

I'm confused. DragonsChi doesn't make the claims that comic industry isn't dying, so he/she doesn't need to demostrate this.

Instead, DragonsChi seems to think that the industry has problems and uses the sales to shops as evidence.

As some say that digital sales are significant and help the current market, it would be good to have proof that it is correct.

I am saying that he is making claims that don't match the facts. He is saying the industry is in trouble when it is incredibly healthy. All of the facts show how healthy it is, so to prove the opposite is on those making the claim.

The digiatl market accounted for $10 Million in the US market in 2017 (most recent data). it remained stable despite the drop in sales of all other publishing including paperback novels and their digital equivalent. That suggests that digital is healthy and has an underlying growth even in the current economic situation.

Add to this the unknown factor of subscriptions. We know that DC just moved into the digital subscription market, and that Marvel are continually investing in that product. Speculation is that people that buy digitally tend to move into the subscription market over time to save money, cannibalising the digital market. The fact that visible digital sales are steady suggests this either isn't happening, or enough people enter the digital market to counteract those leaving for subscriptions.

[Raye]

...I take it back. I am for sure not drinking the green milk, it clearly has side effects unforeseen.

As to the digital talk.... Comixology is pulling 80% profit from a digital sale. That is a ridiculous number. They still have to pay the "license"/shelf fee to marvel or whatever company who published the book. Then still have to pay for operations. If anything their profit margin would be 15-20% and that's being generous.

When you have a sale of 75% on $12 book (Most being less than that. ) and you are only getting 15-20%...

Yeah....not looking so hot.

35%, actually. Could go as high as 65% if a purchase is made on a mobile device, due to Google's cut, but if you purchase through the website, or subscribe to a series, it's 35% that Comixology takes, because it bypasses the app store's fees. And I think large publishers like Marvel get volume discounts, too. It's roughly the same cut Diamond takes for their distribution.

[JKtheMac]

35%, actually. Could go as high as 65% if a purchase is made on a mobile device, due to Google's cut, but if you purchase through the website, or subscribe to a series, it's 35%, because it bypasses the app store's fees. And I think large publishers like Marvel get volume discounts, too. It's roughly the same cut Diamond takes for their distribution.

Also it is artificial to remove the cut. We are talking about an industry not a publisher here. Amazon are a big part of the industry now. They sell a huge percentage of all digital books across the world, not just comics. They are in the industry because it is a way of making money. Just the same as Diamond are.

We know just from these forums that many of us, especially those of us outside the US, only buy books digitally. My iPad is my comic book. Digital subscriptions, digital trades and Comixology singles are how I read comics. Some countries don't even have comic shops, and yet they do have Amazon, Comixology, Marvel Unlimited and DC subscriptions.

[Raye]

I only buy comics digitally these days. I do have access to a comic shop, it's a bit of a hassle to get to, but it's there. But I just prefer the digital format, so... I have several series I sub to, the rest i wait for the digital trades.

And I was a little mistaken, it's actually that Comixology takes 50% of what's left after the app store takes their cut, so it is a large cut, and could stand to be lowered some, admittedly, but it's still a long way off from 80%, and when you factor in the before-mentioned printing and distribution costs, it's still making the publishers more money per issue sold. Marvel is not bleeding money by selling digitally.

[JKtheMac]

I only buy comics digitally these days. I do have access to a comic shop, it's a bit of a hassle to get to, but it's there. But I just prefer the digital format, so... I have several series I sub to, the rest i wait for the digital trades.

And I was a little mistaken, it's actually that Comixology takes 50% of what's left after the app store takes their cut, so it is a large cut, and could stand to be lowered some, admittedly, but it's still a long way off from 80%, and when you factor in the before-mentioned printing and distribution costs, it's still making the publishers more money per issue sold. Marvel is not bleeding money by selling digitally.

Worth considering that there is no one click purchasing on the Comixology Apple App unless you use the Marvel branded app. It is highly likely that Marvel don't mind Apple taking a cut, but clearly Amazon mind quite a bit. They want you to use an Amazon tablet so they can take the money.

The fact that you can still one-click in Google suggests that they must discount for bulk, unlike Apple.

[DragonsChi]

Link corrected above. Note there is zero data for digital subscription so digital in general in under reported.

The link didn't help your argument at all.

35%, actually. Could go as high as 65% if a purchase is made on a mobile device, due to Google's cut, but if you purchase through the website, or subscribe to a series, it's 35% that Comixology takes, because it bypasses the app store's fees. And I think large publishers like Marvel get volume discounts, too. It's roughly the same cut Diamond takes for their distribution.

Nah, Comixology is basically the seller/vender their cut is going to be very low simply because it cost them nothing to produce the product. They just have to move the item. After all the various fee's Marvel itself would have to cut out before it makes a profit on each book would leave a vender like comixology any where between 10-20% (Again still be generous) off of each title they sell of theres. From Marvel. When you start getting into it's own fee's to operate its a lot less that comixology actually make in sales per transaction.

Which explains why they hold sales almost every week of the year. There whole game is volume on the Marvel books. They know if they can move x amount copies each month they can actually turn a profit that is worth a darn. Ergo they are practically giving them away.

[JKtheMac]

The link didn't help your argument at all.

What argument am I making? You are the one arguing against something that is in the public domain. Current comic book sales in the last few years outweigh anything we have seen since they started to actually measure these things.

Those figures show that the industry is worth over double what it was in 1997 even adjusting for inflation.

[DragonsChi]

What argument am I making? You are the one arguing against something that is in the public domain. Current comic book sales in the last few years outweigh anything we have seen since they started to actually measure these things.

Those figures show that the industry is worth over double what it was in 1997 even adjusting for inflation.

It doesn't help your argument because you are giving the industry numbers as a whole verses one individual company. To add further each year the the average price of the comic sales went up and the price reflected in the numbers match it. So yeah the numbers look good to someone that isn't fully sure of what they are looking at but they aren't really that good at all. If the on average the marvel as a company is selling less titles at a higher price it further confirms the unsustainably of it all. Because eventually there will reach a price people are unwilling to pay for 15 pages of story that may or may not be good.

To add further the industry with inflation shows that they should actually be selling quiet a bit more.

[Vordan]

How much money does Marvel make from Unlimited subs? That seems to be the way forward for every bit of entertainment. Everything from music to video games is trying to copy the Netflix model. If Unlimited and Universe do well I wouldn’t be worried about the future of comics. You need to continually produce product to keep people subbed, so people will always be making new content for Marvel and DC’s subs.

[JKtheMac]

How much money does Marvel make from Unlimited subs? That seems to be the way forward for every bit of entertainment. Everything from music to video games is trying to copy the Netflix model. If Unlimited and Universe do well I wouldn’t be worried about the future of comics. You need to continually produce product to keep people subbed, so people will always be making new content for Marvel and DC’s subs.

We have absolutely no way of knowing. They don’t promote it with heavy subsidies for voucher codes as much as they used to, so my guess is they are probably doing quite well.

[JKtheMac]

It doesn't help your argument because you are giving the industry numbers as a whole verses one individual company. To add further each year the the average price of the comic sales went up and the price reflected in the numbers match it. So yeah the numbers look good to someone that isn't fully sure of what they are looking at but they aren't really that good at all. If the on average the marvel as a company is selling less titles at a higher price it further confirms the unsustainably of it all. Because eventually there will reach a price people are unwilling to pay for 15 pages of story that may or may not be good.

To add further the industry with inflation shows that they should actually be selling quiet a bit more.

You appear to have no idea what you are talking about. Put it this way, Marvel now makes as much cash adjusted for inflation as the entire industry did two decades ago.

[DragonsChi]

You appear to have no idea what you are talking about. Put it this way, Marvel now makes as much cash adjusted for inflation as the entire industry did two decades ago.

That is interesting that you would say that. Because with your example of "proof" in the last post you have shown that you don't understand or have not studied economics at all. This statement only confirms that to be true.

The bold statement alone shows you probably don't fully understand business operations and the overreaching goals of any business planning to stay in business.

But whateve's *shrug* as long as the milk is tasty.