March sales figures

[Ropeburn]

Domino Hotshots sold 34,980, a decent debut.

Because of the number of variant covers. Let's see what issue three sells.

The quality of Marvel comics has really taken a steep decline since Secret Wars ended. I used to get excited for each new issue and now I'm like "Well, I guess I'll see what happens now...". Infinity Wars really jaded me. That event was such garbage. I do have hope though with Hickman returning. I never read a Hickman story I didn't like.

I have high hopes for Hickman as well.

[Kintor]

Secondly, as to the fact that most ongoings - from both Marvel and DC - don't regularly post over 100K on the Diamond charts, well, it's a different market now. When fans focus on monthly sales of individual issues, as they tend to do, they're looking at things through an old lens - one that doesn't include digital sales, reprints, trades and so on.

You're not convincing anyone that digital comics and trades are enough to compensate for the loss of sales through Diamond. The truth is that sales are down across the board, well below what they were in the 90s before the crash. Honestly, even 100k through Diamond should be considered a cancelation point in a healthy a comics industry. Never mind that Marvel has most of their books limping along at under 30k. Marvel has squandered every opportunity they had to turn this business around and instead they're content to flood the shelves with low quality books in a rapidly decreasing marketplace.

[Prof. Warren]

You're not convincing anyone that digital comics and trades are enough to compensate for the loss of sales through Diamond.

If someone's ridiculous enough to believe they're an expert on the inner workings of an industry that they're not a member of, I think they're impervious to common sense arguments that point out their lack of actual knowledge. As someone outside the business, I think it's worth pointing out that there's a lot that we, as fans, have no knowledge of. And by "a lot" I mean "pretty much everything." Unfortunately, some fans are not receptive to hearing that.

The truth is that sales are down across the board, well below what they were in the 90s before the crash. Honestly, even 100k through Diamond should be considered a cancelation point in a healthy a comics industry. Never mind that Marvel has most of their books limping along at under 30k. Marvel has squandered every opportunity they had to turn this business around and instead they're content to flood the shelves with low quality books in a rapidly decreasing marketplace.

Please write to Marvel and DC and Image - and every other publisher for that matter - and tell them that, as someone who's in a position to know from behind their keyboard, that "100K through Diamond should be considered a cancellation point in a healthy comics industry." Maybe you can convince every single one of them that they all need to shut down operations immediately.

I mean, all they do is actually work in the industry and publish the books and know what their actual revenue is. Whereas you have the clear upper hand in looking at the Diamond charts, right?

I'll be waiting for the imminent announcement from all publishers that they got the word that they were done. If comics happen to keep coming out on Wednesday this week and next week and next month and next year and the year after that and so on, I'll just assume you just got busy and never sent those e-mails breaking the news that it was time to pack it in. After all, how would any of them know their businesses were failing unless you told them? They would just look at their profits and carry on like fools.

[Kintor]

If someone's ridiculous enough to believe they're an expert on the inner workings of an industry that they're not a member of, I think they're impervious to common sense arguments that point out their lack of actual knowledge. As someone outside the business, I think it's worth pointing out that there's a lot that we, as fans, have no knowledge of. And by "a lot" I mean "pretty much everything." Unfortunately, some fans are not receptive to hearing that.

Marvel is not some arcane mystery cult, hiding it's secrets from the non-believers. Marvel is a business with a well understood business model - selling serialized stories with pictures and dialogue at a mass scale. That last part 'scale' is the important bit, this whole edifice that is Marvel only works when you have large numbers of people buying each issue. 20k is not a large number and neither is 100k for that matter, the metrics that have sustained Marvel as a business are collapsing and you must come to terms with this fact.

[lordozone]

Wow. A lot of doomsayers in this thread. For me, since CB Cebulski, Marvel has made a spectacular comeback: Venom, Guardians of the galaxy, Hulk, Amazing Spider-man, Daredevil, Captain America, Thor, Doctor Strange... When you compare to ANAD, we have a lot of good or even great comics, with classic characters.

And at the same time, for the new generation, we have Champions, Miles Morales, Moon Girl...

After Anad, we need to give time to Cebulski, because there is a lot of problems to course-correct. But when you compare with the ANAD period, even if these march sales figures are down, and even if it's not perfect at all, you can't deny that Marvel is making a comeback.

[Username taken]

Wow. A lot of doomsayers in this thread. For me, since CB Cebulski, Marvel has made a spectacular comeback: Venom, Guardians of the galaxy, Hulk, Amazing Spider-man, Daredevil, Captain America, Thor, Doctor Strange... When you compare to ANAD, we have a lot of good or even great comics, with classic characters.

And at the same time, for the new generation, we have Champions, Miles Morales, Moon Girl...

After Anad, we need to give time to Cebulski, because there is a lot of problems to course-correct. But when you compare with the ANAD period, even if these march sales figures are down, and even if it's not perfect at all, you can't deny that Marvel is making a comeback.

Exactly.

Marvel’s been killing it lately but then again we are all reading different books.

But across the board, Marvel hasn’t been this good in a long while IMO.

[lordozone]

Exactly.

Marvel’s been killing it lately but then again we are all reading different books.

But across the board, Marvel hasn’t been this good in a long while IMO.

And except for this thread, you can see the difference with the ANAD period in this forum: during ANAD, almost every threads were filled with politics disagreements, insults from Marvel writers, angry rants against the old or new generation of heroes, controversy of the day... Since the new management, we are finally talking about comics again. And I really think that it's because the quality has improved.

[9th.]

Why we gotta go through this impending doom crap every time sales figures are posted?

[myownlittleusername]

Why we gotta go through this impending doom crap every time sales figures are posted?

People have always had a fascination for the end times and like to talk about them while pushing their own agendas.

[JKtheMac]

Wow. A lot of doomsayers in this thread. For me, since CB Cebulski, Marvel has made a spectacular comeback: Venom, Guardians of the galaxy, Hulk, Amazing Spider-man, Daredevil, Captain America, Thor, Doctor Strange... When you compare to ANAD, we have a lot of good or even great comics, with classic characters.

And at the same time, for the new generation, we have Champions, Miles Morales, Moon Girl...

After Anad, we need to give time to Cebulski, because there is a lot of problems to course-correct. But when you compare with the ANAD period, even if these march sales figures are down, and even if it's not perfect at all, you can't deny that Marvel is making a comeback.

We actually have no way of knowing if CB has added anything to the bottom line. The only difference I can see:

Less active pushing of some newer properties (seems to be thawing)
Some backwards looking nostalgic miniseries and singles which will mostly sell to the old guard
More active promotion of artists
Some interesting but possibly unsuccessful moves into digital first
An apparently abandoned attitude over reducing events
A potential and much needed shakeup of the X-Titles
More maxi series that are relevant to continuity and can be sold as hardcovers
A continuation of the move away from slavish movie synergy towards a more pragmatic approach

Some of this feels like positive change, some feels like a charm offensive for the older more cynical fans. A mixed bag really.

Anyone else noticed any changes I haven’t covered?

[Prof. Warren]

Marvel is not some arcane mystery cult, hiding it's secrets from the non-believers. Marvel is a business with a well understood business model - selling serialized stories with pictures and dialogue at a mass scale. That last part 'scale' is the important bit, this whole edifice that is Marvel only works when you have large numbers of people buying each issue. 20k is not a large number and neither is 100k for that matter, the metrics that have sustained Marvel as a business are collapsing and you must come to terms with this fact.

Hey, I told you - write to all the publishers with this important news! What are you waiting for?

I mean, "the metrics that have sustained Marvel as a business are collapsing!" You can't sit on that knowledge, bro! After all, by logic, that would mean the same metrics that also sustain DC as a business and Image as a business, and so on, are all collapsing. They're all in the business of selling comics, right? So this isn't just a Marvel problem - all of these guys are done, toast, finished!

Or...and stay with me here, it could be you're just another guy who talks a lot of ignorant sh*t on the internet.

Not to rain on your parade but I strongly suspect it's the latter that's true.

I guess we'll know when comics keep arriving next week, next month, next year, five years from now...well, you get the picture.

[Prof. Warren]

Why we gotta go through this impending doom crap every time sales figures are posted?

Because comics fandom is filled with self-appointed Chicken Littles who think they have the inside track on the industry.

You'd think that after all this time of consistently predicting doom and having it not arrive that they'd just learn to sit back and enjoy some comics.

[JKtheMac]

Because comics fandom is filled with self-appointed Chicken Littles who think they have the inside track on the industry.

You'd think that after all this time of consistently predicting doom and having it not arrive that they'd just learn to sit back and enjoy some comics.

Enjoy comics! Whatever next.

It is clear to anyone that has any inkling into how Disney and WB operate, that they are happy to keep subsidiaries going if they either pay for themselves or feed into their wider businesses. Presently Marvel and DC comics do both on a tiny amount of money compared to their more pressing concerns.

One only has to look at the way the streaming services are being marketed and how properties from the comics world are a major player in that budding industry, to see why it is valuable to nurture and support the comic industry.

If it is such a gloomy industry why are the New York Times adjacent companies launching AWA? Because the business model of low cost comics acting as a launchpad for new properties is plain to see.

[DragonsChi]

You're not convincing anyone that digital comics and trades are enough to compensate for the loss of sales through Diamond. The truth is that sales are down across the board, well below what they were in the 90s before the crash. Honestly, even 100k through Diamond should be considered a cancelation point in a healthy a comics industry. Never mind that Marvel has most of their books limping along at under 30k. Marvel has squandered every opportunity they had to turn this business around and instead they're content to flood the shelves with low quality books in a rapidly decreasing marketplace.

This.

It's weird that some people think that when it comes to certain things they should just shut off their brains and take whatever lies they are fed. It's come to the point where some are acting as if the numbers being put out are either fake or constructed by haters. I mean how naive do you have to be to not acknowledge that when a substantial chunk of Marvel books are continually below 15k that everything is not all sunshine and rainbows.

But hey if some like the green milk from the thala-siren teat, who am I to tell them how gross and weird they are. *Shrug* People like what they like and will believe whatever they want to believe in spite of overwhelming evidence.

[Raye]

People have been saying the industry is on the verge of collapse since the time i started following forums like these around 2000ish. (when they actually may have been some merit to it after the collapse of the collectors market and Marvel's bankruptcy just a few years earlier) After 20 years of watching people calling doom and gloom month in and month out, i have a very hard time taking it seriously. year in year out, there's always a vocal contingent saying that how things are being done will ruin the industry and blah blah blah. They haven't been right yet. It didn't collapse back then, I doubt it will happen now. Comics are a lot more niche now than they used to be, I won't deny that, but I really doubt they are on the verge of shutting everything down, especially with massive corporations backing Marvel and DC. It's true that they bought the companies primarily for the IP, but as long as Marvel and DC aren't losing money, I don't think the parent companies particularly care if they are making a huge profit, just as long as it is a profit. There is no benefit to shutting them down until they start losing money, and I really don't think we are there just yet. And yeah, just declaring that you don't believe digital or trades can make a difference is not exactly a convincing argument.