((Spoilers!!!) Avengers: Endgame big moment for women

[TriggerWarning]

It was a stupid scene because it was so forced and implausible. Suspension of disbelief is one thing but believing that somehow in such a chaotic widespread battle that every female hero without missing even one would somehow end up clustered together in an area small enough for all of them to fit in a shot was ridiculous. And especially to then not have a single male hero in the shot.

I get what they were trying to convey, that women be can be badass superheroes too, but there was no need for it after the things they'd already shown Captain Marvel, Scarlet Witch, and others do. Except for maybe Cap weilding Mjolinir there wasn't a more badass scene than Captain Marvel taking down the spaceship.

[Theleviathan]

Had everyone rallied to help Pepper it would've made more sense. As others have noted....Captain Marvel didn't need help.

Fine scene, just a quibble about how they set it up.

[AnakinFlair]

When I watched it in theaters, even knowing it was coming, it still felt incredibly pandering. I didn't hate it, and I liked seeing the women get a moment to shine, but to me it felt like 'the women will always play second fiddle to the men in Marvel movies, so here is something to shut up the feminists'.

[AnakinFlair]

It was a stupid scene because it was so forced and implausible. Suspension of disbelief is one thing but believing that somehow in such a chaotic widespread battle that every female hero without missing even one would somehow end up clustered together in an area small enough for all of them to fit in a shot was ridiculous. And especially to then not have a single male hero in the shot.

I get what they were trying to convey, that women be can be badass superheroes too, but there was no need for it after the things they'd already shown Captain Marvel, Scarlet Witch, and others do. Except for maybe Cap weilding Mjolinir there wasn't a more badass scene than Captain Marvel taking down the spaceship.

Agreed- though I think Captain Marvel's most bad-ass moment was her being head-butted by Thanos and no-selling it.

[Flash Gordon]

The scene was cool enough by me. It'll sell toys!

The entire concept of these movies is fan service so who cares?

[Midvillian1322]

Its wasnt organic but it was cool enough of a scene that I didnt care.

[Tofali]

I personally agree with the article, but understand why others wouldn't.

It actually took me out of the moment in the middle of that fight and felt like a 'see, we have women, too!' moment after the vast majority of the movie was pretty male centric.

This moment and Steve and Toni wielding Mjölnir and the stones took me out of the movie due to the convenience of it all.

Peter whining and crying over Toni dying should have been edited out - it didn't work this time around.

[JimRaynor55]

Is the moment a bit forced? Maybe depending on opinion, but it shouldn't be derided in a movie full of other blatant fan service moments.

What felt wrong to me was them doing this triumphant all-female team up after fridging Black Widow, their most prominent female character for almost a decade straight.

[AJBopp]

Is the moment a bit forced? Maybe depending on opinion, but it shouldn't be derided in a movie full of other blatant fan service moments.

What felt wrong to me was them doing this triumphant all-female team up after fridging Black Widow, their most prominent female character for almost a decade straight.

I wonder what other available character you think would have been more appropriate to lose within the given narrative

[JimRaynor55]

They made the narrative. Chucking someone off the cliff to get the Soul Stone is literally an arbitrary, made up rule. Complying with it without question is also taking the Red Skull, an actual Nazi supervillain, at his word. If the writers wanted to create a loophole or reveal that Red Skull was just lying, they could've.

Also, Widow wasn't even the original choice to die. Articles that came out today reported that Markus and McFeely originally had Hawkeye dying. They changed it after getting input from the visual effects supervisor, so it's not like Widow (or anyone else) dying on Vormir was this all-important, unchangeable part of the plan.

[Chris0013]

It was forced from the standpoint that during that huge battle...all the ladies were free at that exact moment for a group shot.

As for Widow....the cost "a soul for a soul" is about understanding the price...I would say that what Clint felt over losing his wife and kids could have been written to be that understanding.

[The Cool Thatguy]

They made the narrative. Chucking someone off the cliff to get the Soul Stone is literally an arbitrary, made up rule. Complying with it without question is also taking the Red Skull, an actual Nazi supervillain, at his word. If the writers wanted to create a loophole or reveal that Red Skull was just lying, they could've.

Also, Widow wasn't even the original choice to die. Articles that came out today reported that Markus and McFeely originally had Hawkeye dying. They changed it after getting input from the visual effects supervisor, so it's not like Widow (or anyone else) dying on Vormir was this all-important, unchangeable part of the plan.

Widow dying brings her story full circle. It wipes the 'red from her ledger', allows her to give Clint the same chance that he originally gave her and like Tony, is a choice she made to save the world.

As for Red Skull lying, we saw no evidence of that in Infinity War. The only loop hole I can imagine is both dying perhaps, and then being resurrected as both having the gem.

And from a balanced internal logic/external logic standpoint, I doubt Scarjo wanted to play Widow forever, yet Black Widow never would retire from the Avengers. To allow her actor to move on, the character had to end.

[JimRaynor55]

Yes, a point could be made that this was clearing her "ledger" or that she was repaying Clint for what he'd done for her. I can agree with that but I don't see how that's the only path forward for her when she had always had so much more room to grow due to the lack of her own solo movie.

We saw no evidence of Red Skull lying but we only ever saw him for a minute in this role as the Sole Stone's guide. I just find it strange that no one questions him at all, or that Clint and Widow apparently didn't recognize him given the fact that he's a famous historical figure in the MCU. It's like talking to the ghost of Hitler and not acknowledging that fact. There was room for the writers to make a swerve, or to reveal that the mechanics of the Soul Stone were not so narrowly defined. I definitely would have worked in something about how Clint wouldn't actually sacrifice Natasha, but that Natasha sacrificed herself and that she's not even close to being the one she loves most. The stone could've recognized that selflessness and rewarded it.

No actor wants to play a character forever, but Scarlett has been open for a long time about doing a Black Widow solo movie if Marvel would go ahead with it. Blockbuster solo movies tend to get sequels, and let's face it this is a business and all parties involved would be onboard with sequels if the movie made $700+ million on a $100 million budget. Scarlett is a "big name" but Widow is her defining role. She's open to these kinds of genre flicks and unlike Ghost in a Shell (another recent attempt at a blockbuster franchise), this wouldn't bomb.

[regnak]

There can still be a BW prequel movie or trilogy, what happened in Budapest?

[Jabare]

The scene they were missing was Black Widows funeral.

She could have gotten something alongside Tony