Alright, alright - DCEU Supes versus MCU Captain Marvel

[choptop]

Pretty well been pointed out why it's not as you say it is. Unless you've got feats/proof to change that your disagreeing doesn't change that.

I'm not trying to change your mind you and others can think what you like I respect that I just disagree.

[The Drunkard Kid]

She’s strong enough to lift and push the Milano, but moving it at speed would be easy as you don’t lose speed in space unless acted upon by a stellar object. As noted, she has excellent interstellar speed but acting as a towing truck wouldn’t be that difficult for her.

As to no-selling Thanos, again, she’s crazy durable, no question. But she wasn’t so far above Thanos as to treat him like flea either (she’s clearly more durable than strong).

But I have a feeling DCEU Clark could do the same thing with Thanos’ head but (since he’s taken blows from other movie Kryptonians and other such things).

Again, Carol is clearly an incredibly powerful person. But she lacks Clark’s slow down the world speed and he can land dozens of blows on her before she can react.

Now that you mention it, she also apparently has the strength to *slow down* a space ship traveling at ridiculously beyond light speed enough to land the thing. In all fairness, its possible that the writers didn't think of that and future feats won't match that level.

[rhyvurg]

Superman far, far outclasses Carol. Pushing back the missile cannot be counted as a feat of pure strength for the same reason we can't count Aquaman's sub lift, because there are other factors. Namely, her flight thrust. Could she have done the same with her feet on the ground and using nothing but physical brawn? We have no way of knowing. Also attributing the missile the same weight as a modern ICBM is a little dicey, plus we absolutely can't say it has the same thrust, since those missiles are for bombarding planets, not breaking free of a gravity well like an ICBM is. And Superman wasn't just moving that ship, he was dragging it on it's side, which means an enormous amount of friction. As for her fight with Thanos, it was mostly a tug of war yeah, but two things stand out. The headbutt, and the Power Stone. During their fight they traded a few hits, but he didn't seem any more bothered by her than he was by Hulk, and when he threw her before putting on the new IG she was down for a few seconds, had he followed up on beating her down rather than put on the glove he might have had her (similarly to how Bucky could have killed BP in WS after knocking him on his ass, rather than leaving). But the most important part is, I don't think his headbutt landed, I think he just hit her energy barrier. Which is significant because Superman can start hitting her well before she can turn it on. Secondly, she was out of the fight after getting hit by the Power Stone, she is not seen on camera until Tony's funeral, she was done, defeated. But Tony's nano armor made a shield that held off the Power Stone on Titan, meaning than when his newest suit focused on defense, it was tougher than she is. And I still wouldn't place the PS blast above ground zero of a nuke, which Superman survived after two doses of Kryptonite gas. So basically, she might (maybe) be (slightly) stronger physically, but she's nowhere near as durable and massively slower. Superman takes it.



EDIT: Having watched the scene again, and looking at the missile compared to her body in the few shots that have both together that aren't closeups, the missile she stopped is much closer to a cruise missile than an ICBM. And it is an absolute fact her flight thrust was a factor, in one wide shot you can literally see her aura getting bigger as she struggled to stop the missile.

[The Arbiter]

"Flight thrust" and "swim thrust" are just semantics to try and discredit feats.

So is the "energy barrier" argument that has been discussed thoroughly in the Wonder Woman thread, complete with frame by frame posted scans. She doesnt have one during the headbutt.

According to you, Superman in comics can't push the moon with his strength. Just with his "flight thrust"? 616 Iron Man is class 80ish and has pushed around huge skyscraper sized reactors. Oh, never mind, I guess just his rocket boots are class 80? Even Nu/Rebirth Aquaman literally has a submarine lift feat nearly identical to the movie. We have NEVER once argued it was "swim thrust" and not just his strength.

These are silly points.

[greatmetropolitan]

Given that Clark treated the combined efforts of the submarine-moving Arthur (Happy with him not OHKOing humans because I doubt he's going around full strengthing everyone. Not a cold blooded murderer), Wonder Woman and Cyborg with less than contemptuous ease, I'm happy putting his strength at least at Carol's level, if not quite above. He also can't even be outright killed by a nuke even when he's still suffering from inhaling Kryptonite, so I'd put his durability at least on Carol's level, again, if not higher.

But even if his strength was only on the Thor or Hulk level, he's still waaaay too fast for her to touch, and will hit her too many times before she can strike back. Carol is a beast and I loved her in Endgame, but Clark takes it.

[Twickster]

EDIT: Having watched the scene again, and looking at the missile compared to her body in the few shots that have both together that aren't closeups, the missile she stopped is much closer to a cruise missile than an ICBM.

In addition to Arbiter's comments, the missile is definitely *not* just the size of a cruise missile but is, in fact, the size of a very large ICBM.

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[MindofShadow]

That's very true. Scarlet Witch continues to see the most gains between films in the MCU. I'm genuinely perplexed as to why they keep giving her these massive pushes.

Remember when she had a hard time containing a single dude exploding? Definitely not the case now.

Oh wait... they got the rights to the X-Men... huh... maybe they'll have her do a House of M style reality thing due to... being sad about Vision probably... and then the mutants exist now. That sounds plausible so they need to continue to build on her power level in the narrative with each film.

She seems to get more poweful the more emotion/anger she has behind it.

Like when QS died and she let out a massive AOE

The pure emotio she had to hold back thanos while destroying vision

And then the pure hatred she had for Thanos when she came back. She was pissed.


Also, she is still a glass cannon.

[rhyvurg]

"Flight thrust" and "swim thrust" are just semantics to try and discredit feats.

So, you're saying Superman is strong enough to casually hold back Aquaman with one hand, whom in turn you are crediting with the full submarine lift at high speed while pushing all that water out of the way and lifting the nose over a dozen feet out of the water through sheer momentum? Either way, Superman is still stronger than she is.

So is the "energy barrier" argument that has been discussed thoroughly in the Wonder Woman thread, complete with frame by frame posted scans. She doesnt have one during the headbutt.

Yes I saw. She does have a barrier, because she was glowing. Glow=barrier. And I agree with the people who think his head didn't even touch her. Why? Because earlier in the same fight he was able to harm her physically, and her hair didn't even move. He did not make contact.

According to you, Superman in comics can't push the moon with his strength. Just with his "flight thrust"? 616 Iron Man is class 80ish and has pushed around huge skyscraper sized reactors. Oh, never mind, I guess just his rocket boots are class 80? Even Nu/Rebirth Aquaman literally has a submarine lift feat nearly identical to the movie. We have NEVER once argued it was "swim thrust" and not just his strength.

These are silly points.

As for this...I have no idea why you posted it. I never said anything about a moon, or 616 Iron Man, or that "class 80" nonsense that wikis like for some reason.

[rhyvurg]

In addition to Arbiter's comments, the missile is definitely *not* just the size of a cruise missile but is, in fact, the size of a very large ICBM.

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Brie Larson is 5'7", the missile is roughly ten times her height based on the size of her glow in that very shot, and this is before she amped her energy to push the missile, so her aura is pretty tight around her as per it's usual depiction. That means the missile is just under 56 feet long, which yes is comparable to a modern ICBM, specifically an LGM-30 Minuteman III, so I was mistaken there, but unfortunately those missiles weigh in at a mere 39 tons, meaning Superman's ship drag and casually holding off sub-lifting Aquaman means he's exponentially stronger than she is. And since these missiles are for bombardment, not escaping a gravity well, you can't claim she's fighting the same level of thrust.

EDIT: This also means Thor is about ten times stronger than she is too, since his best physical feat is well over 300 tons.

[Nik Hasta]

Brie Larson is 5'7", the missile is roughly ten times her height based on the size of her glow in that very shot, and this is before she amped her energy to push the missile, so her aura is pretty tight around her as per it's usual depiction. That means the missile is just under 56 feet long, which yes is comparable to a modern ICBM, specifically an LGM-30 Minuteman III, so I was mistaken there, but unfortunately those missiles weigh in at a mere 39 tons, meaning Superman's ship drag and casually holding off sub-lifting Aquaman means he's exponentially stronger than she is. And since these missiles are for bombardment, not escaping a gravity well, you can't claim she's fighting the same level of thrust.

EDIT: This also means Thor is about ten times stronger than she is too, since his best physical feat is well over 300 tons.

Quick note, the impressive part of this feat is her overcoming the thrust of the missile, not the weight of the thing itself.

[Captain Morgan]

I'm feeling not especially swayed either way comparing Clark and Carol's strength. I think trying to do so seems to involve a level of attempted calculations on both sides I feel distasteful, because I don't think it is really how these stories operate. And the attempts to downplay both sides also feels distasteful. I do think Clark's best outdoes Hulk, Thor, and even Thanos for strength and durability. Carol might be stronger, but she might be weaker, and I'm sort of inclined to say they are equals. I don't know that she has any durability feats comparable to the nuke, though we haven't seen her ceiling either.

As such, I think Clark beats her via blitz. I also don't recall her displaying a level of AoE that would impair him. Best thing I remember is shaking a bunch of nearby space ships, which doesn't feel relevant. But she's pretty clearly top dog overall in the MCU now.

[regnak]

As far as CM vs Thanos remember that came after he had gotten pounded on by the big 3 with both hammers and then he got attacked by the SW. Thanos being anywhere near full power vs Carol seems unlikely.

[Captain Morgan]

As far as CM vs Thanos remember that came after he had gotten pounded on by the big 3 with both hammers and then he got attacked by the SW. Thanos being anywhere near full power vs Carol seems unlikely.

Eh, dude doesn't have a solar battery being depleted or whatever and I don't recall him seeming especially low on stamina or whatever.

[regnak]

Eh, dude doesn't have a solar battery being depleted or whatever and I don't recall him seeming especially low on stamina or whatever.

Think of it more like a boxer who has gone 10 rounds then faces a fresh opponent.

[Captain Morgan]

Think of it more like a boxer who has gone 10 rounds then faces a fresh opponent.

The boxer can still throw a punch, and probably won't bounce off their opponents head with no effect. That is a considerable gap.