Trans Panic & other issues arising from Uncanny X-Men #17

[Ulfhammer]

The article doesn't seem to do a very good job of flushing out the fundamental elements of it's argument. Several times the author tries to justify their perspective by suggesting "it's obvious right?". That's not actually convincing when it's addressing a metaphor which by definition is open to interpretation.

When looking at how the actual scene plays out, the four hooligans in question react toward Rahne as though she is a physical threat to them, which in normal circumstances she obviously would be if she was hostile. I find a lot more parallels comparing this to a scene in Berlin in 1941 where a group of German boys discover the girl their catcalling is actually Jewish. German Nazis were already well indoctrinated to perceive Jews as a legitimate threat to the state and their individual well-being. Behavior along these lines feels more likely to occur in this context and it in fact did occur historically. There was also obvious motivation to avoid being seen to be friendly or fraternizing with Jews. To me the holocaust state is much more relatable to the way Rosenberg is describing how mutants are being treated in the 616 then how minority groups are actually suffering violence in North America. Beyond that, within the context of the 616, mutants are perceived, and have in fact many times proven, to be a serious physical threat. The US govt in the 616 is actively hunting and imprisoning or killing mutants. As far as I know the killing and imprisonment of any minority isn't the policy of the US govt or any other NA govt for that matter. It was the official policy of the Nazi govt however.

I think you could potentially find parallels throughout history with a number of different groups who's only crime was to be vilified by the state. If members of certain groups want to identify with this story, that's their choice and they're free to do so. Personally I don't see the open and shut case to be made here that this was 100% transphobic inspired. There are more then enough groups historically or currently being treated this way by private citizens to say it's intended to be about any single one of them definitely. Rosenberg certainly doesn't seem to be admitting such a think from what I've seen so far.

[Tycon]

Sorry, but I see no problem with the analogy.
Actually it's giving a real world problem more visibility and opening a discussion between readers.
It's a cultural work goal and that's what makes the X-men appeling.

Complaining about the lack of trans representation is totally understandable, but it doesn't make the anology used here bad.

The lack of trans rep is directly linked to why this issue was so controversial. It’s exacrly why the MLK/Malcolm X analogy fell apart for many reasons, but most of all, it was represented through five white people. Not too mention there are trans readers reading X-Men. Why would you intentionally put traumatic events linked to their identity in a comic without any turnaround? It’s exactly why Marvel didn’t publish a comic where Anole killed himself because he was gay. What message am I, a gay reader, supposed to gleam from that? I already know the statistics of LGBTQ+ teens who kill themselves, what is more powerful of a message is Anole overcoming homophobia in any way he can. Or just let a writer who is actually knowledgeable on the subject matter write the issue.

[Omega Alpha]

He is talking with a trans person in the tweets.

After the issue is published. I mean, when he's writing it or think of doing it.

The lack of trans rep is directly linked to why this issue was so controversial. It’s exacrly why the MLK/Malcolm X analogy fell apart for many reasons, but most of all, it was represented through five white people. Not too mention there are trans readers reading X-Men. Why would you intentionally put traumatic events linked to their identity in a comic without any turnaround? It’s exactly why Marvel didn’t publish a comic where Anole killed himself because he was gay. What message am I, a gay reader, supposed to gleam from that? I already know the statistics of LGBTQ+ teens who kill themselves, what is more powerful of a message is Anole overcoming homophobia in any way he can. Or just let a writer who is actually knowledgeable on the subject matter write the issue.

Yup.

[nx01a]

As a gay man, I'd see Anole succumbing to the forces arrayed against him. It's how his death was handled, if we can see exactly how his thinking was skewed, exactly how he was bullied that matters. If we see his death have a positive effect on someone else going through similar issues, wonderful. Bad things happen; it's how you move past them and how the traumas are used to inspire positive change that count.

As I wrote elsewhere...

Should every Legacy Virus victim have heroically overcome the disease and survived to show a positive parallel to AIDS? Should Cypher have heroically overcome his gunshot wounds and lived to show a positive parallel to gun violence? Should the Genoshan mutates have revolted and taken control of the country as a positive parallel to apartheid? Of course the deaths and torments are meant to parallel real life, otherwise why would we ever feel concern for mutants and their plight? I don't want such darkness to continue ad infinitum but, for now, we're in a dark place along with the X-Men.

Hopefully things will get better. Hopefully Rahne's death will inspire public outcry against the treatment of mutants. We'll have to wait and see.

[Dthirds3]

^ Wow that sounds absolutely stupid. I fear for Mama whenever it's time for her to appear in Uncanny

Dont worry there's nothing to fear unless you liked any aspect of Emma's character from the past 20 years, then your screwed

[Mutant X]

The lack of trans rep is directly linked to why this issue was so controversial. It’s exacrly why the MLK/Malcolm X analogy fell apart for many reasons, but most of all, it was represented through five white people. Not too mention there are trans readers reading X-Men. Why would you intentionally put traumatic events linked to their identity in a comic without any turnaround? It’s exactly why Marvel didn’t publish a comic where Anole killed himself because he was gay. What message am I, a gay reader, supposed to gleam from that? I already know the statistics of LGBTQ+ teens who kill themselves, what is more powerful of a message is Anole overcoming homophobia in any way he can. Or just let a writer who is actually knowledgeable on the subject matter write the issue.

I've read some articles about how the X-men is a old-fashioned concept. Because nowadays we don't need anologies, writers are free to write minorities. But it's a discussion for another thread.

Have a optimistic or a depressive story is a writer's choice.
It's like God Loves Man Kills and Excalibur. Both are X-men, both are good, both are valid.
Rosenberg made clear since #11 that he is writing a dark and hopeless X-men narrative.
And maybe it's not for all readers. And it's ok too.

[nx01a]

Rosenberg made clear since #11 that he is writing a dark and hopeless X-men narrative.
And maybe it's not for all readers. And it's ok too.

I agree with you.

[Askani's Flame]

So many of you are missing the point. It is unequivocally a deliberate analogy. That is not up for debate here. The guy literally uses the word "trap". (People complain that comics are too hamfisted, but when they're handed something as blatant as this they don't see it.) It couldn't be more obvious if Rahne looked directly at the "camera" and said "Ay, this be a metaphor for trans panic, ye spaleen." That's not the question. The question is whether this is an appropriate handling of the metaphor.

I am trans and I am not terribly outraged by it. Ironically, (I admit as a man trans panic isn't as prominent a threat to me as to women, but) I have been triggered not my the comic itself, but by seeing my Twitter feed explode with criticism of the scene, reminding me how the world hates me, and everything is terrible for us, and there still isn't a trans mutant and we aren't shown anywhere and our supposed allies **** up when they try to represent us and so many of us kill ourselves that we need a hotline, etc. Whereas when I read the issue, I thought "Huh, good use of the Metaphor. **** flatscans. This issue was better paced than the others."

We need canon actual trans rep (and everything else rep) on page yesterday, that is true. And they probably should have warned people ahead of time. But I thought the X-men were supposed to serve as a platform to illuminate the realities of marginalised peoples. Despite what I wrote above, it's possible that at lest one cis person will read the story and go "hey, this sucks, and happens all the time. I should do something about it or at least understand how terrible it is." Maybe the next time they see someone get off a murder charge because of the trans panic defense, they'll remember that the victim had a name and that all people deserve justice. Maybe a trans person will read this and instead of being hurt, think "Here is my experience, represented on paper. Here is light cast on my struggles." I don't often understand the modern trend of criticising struggles being spotlighted in sympathetic light. I think it's good to reinforce that something is bad.

I think a big factor is that there is zero trans representation and especially positive or happy trans representation. And that shouldn't be the whole picture. But I advocate for that without getting mad when the bad stuff is shown.

Thank you for sharing!

[Leirus]

My only issue with Rahne's death is that we don't see enough of her changed mindset, why she wouldn't werewolf out and shred those douche bros, why she'd stay human and not use her considerable fighting skill to defend herself.

Bad things happen to mutants just like bad things happen to the LGBTQIA+ community and other minorities. Would it be preferable to have Rahne defeat her attackers or to show the worst case of how such encounters can end? Having her beat them, to me, diminishes the horror of the real world events being mirrored.
Thank you for sharing.

It is important to state that Rahne did not defend herself. It is obvious that with her powers she could have killed them all, easily. In the comic Wolverine says as much.

[nx01a]

It is important to state that Rahne did not defend herself. It is obvious that with her powers she could have killed them all, easily. In the comic Wolverine says as much.

Exactly. When did she suddenly start hating herself so much again? Why wasn't it highlighted? We needed more than we got so the death we got was nonsensical.

[MechaJeanix]

Exactly. When did she suddenly start hating herself so much again? Why wasn't it highlighted? We needed more than we got so the death we got was nonsensical.

I have mixed feelings about this Uncanny run. With all the deaths over the years of beloved/classic characters, all these deaths in Rosenberg's run just feels cheap to me. I haven't felt anything over the deaths and I love characters like Blindfold and Rahne.

I read the linked article and I can see how this issue would be upsetting and problematic. I also read the response in this thread from a trans person who wasn't as upset with the issue. I think when it comes to topics like this we need to listen to trans voices and diverse trans voices.

I read the issue online on Wednesday and instantly thought of trans panic when I read the scene. Rosenberg, I'm sure had good intentions but I do feel that he writes male dude bros a lot better than he writes minority characters. I do not think he writes female characters particularly well. I do think he writes Cyclops and Wolverine well.

[Tycon]

I've read some articles about how the X-men is a old-fashioned concept. Because nowadays we don't need anologies, writers are free to write minorities. But it's a discussion for another thread.

Have a optimistic or a depressive story is a writer's choice.
It's like God Loves Man Kills and Excalibur. Both are X-men, both are good, both are valid.
Rosenberg made clear since #11 that he is writing a dark and hopeless X-men narrative.
And maybe it's not for all readers. And it's ok too.

But then there could at least be concern warnings if the comic was gonna delve into stuff like that. Not saying we should flag every comic down and have warnings for explicit content, but straight-up showing Ruth’s dead naked body in a bathtub with slit wrists without any warning was an odd choice to say the least. There are still ways to get across the same subject matter without the unsolicited graphic shots is they didn’t want to put warnings in fear of spoiling the issue. So it’s not to say that these stories shouldn’t be told, but back it up with extensive care or even consult people who may have had similar experiences, especially trans women in the case of Rahne’s plot. For a case of how to do it right when you are uninformed or not well-informed, I always point to the really well-written issue of Unstoppable Wasp where Whitley was able to display Nadia’s bipolar disorder.

As a gay man, I'd see Anole succumbing to the forces arrayed against him. It's how his death was handled, if we can see exactly how his thinking was skewed, exactly how he was bullied that matters. If we see his death have a positive effect on someone else going through similar issues, wonderful. Bad things happen; it's how you move past them and how the traumas are used to inspire positive change that count.

I totally agree. Problem is, no amount of thought reached that far in the concept. In fact, the whole point of Anole killing himself was just to give Elixir a reason to stop being an *******. It was never about the struggle of Anole and how he dealt with his sexuality, it just boiled down to the abuse of LGBTQ+ bodies to uphold straight ones and give them development and character. Had we gotten a writer who was actually gay, maybe that story would’ve been written with the actual gay character in mind.

[Wiccan]

The article doesn't seem to do a very good job of flushing out the fundamental elements of it's argument. Several times the author tries to justify their perspective by suggesting "it's obvious right?". That's not actually convincing when it's addressing a metaphor which by definition is open to interpretation.

When looking at how the actual scene plays out, the four hooligans in question react toward Rahne as though she is a physical threat to them, which in normal circumstances she obviously would be if she was hostile. I find a lot more parallels comparing this to a scene in Berlin in 1941 where a group of German boys discover the girl their catcalling is actually Jewish. German Nazis were already well indoctrinated to perceive Jews as a legitimate threat to the state and their individual well-being. Behavior along these lines feels more likely to occur in this context and it in fact did occur historically. There was also obvious motivation to avoid being seen to be friendly or fraternizing with Jews. To me the holocaust state is much more relatable to the way Rosenberg is describing how mutants are being treated in the 616 then how minority groups are actually suffering violence in North America. Beyond that, within the context of the 616, mutants are perceived, and have in fact many times proven, to be a serious physical threat. The US govt in the 616 is actively hunting and imprisoning or killing mutants. As far as I know the killing and imprisonment of any minority isn't the policy of the US govt or any other NA govt for that matter. It was the official policy of the Nazi govt however.

I think you could potentially find parallels throughout history with a number of different groups who's only crime was to be vilified by the state. If members of certain groups want to identify with this story, that's their choice and they're free to do so. Personally I don't see the open and shut case to be made here that this was 100% transphobic inspired. There are more then enough groups historically or currently being treated this way by private citizens to say it's intended to be about any single one of them definitely. Rosenberg certainly doesn't seem to be admitting such a think from what I've seen so far.

While it's true that the article is not that well written, this whole "It could be about anyone" talk is bullshit. I checked the issue now, and the guy straight up says she's "Out there trying to trap guys". This is definetely not in any way related to jews or whatever you want to insert here. When they realize what she is, they don't get mad because she's a threat. They're mad because she's not a "normal woman". They don't mention how she was dangerous and/or going to attack them, they mention how their friend was "trying to bang a mutie", and how she was trying to "trap them" into thinking she was "normal".

The mutant metaphor is inspired by a lot of things. You may think the overall best fit is with jews, but that's not how it always is. Each story is different and they can each be based in one different thing. The one for this specific story is indeed obvious. It has nothing to do with imprisonment or the government. It's about guys thinking how disgusting it would be if they had sex with this "freak" by supposedly being tricked into thinking she was something else.

[Anduinel]

I have mixed feelings about this Uncanny run. With all the deaths over the years of beloved/classic characters, all these deaths in Rosenberg's run just feels cheap to me. I haven't felt anything over the deaths and I love characters like Blindfold and Rahne.

I read the linked article and I can see how this issue would be upsetting and problematic. I also read the response in this thread from a trans person who wasn't as upset with the issue. I think when it comes to topics like this we need to listen to trans voices and diverse trans voices.

I read the issue online on Wednesday and instantly thought of trans panic when I read the scene. Rosenberg, I'm sure had good intentions but I do feel that he writes male dude bros a lot better than he writes minority characters. I do not think he writes female characters particularly well. I do think he writes Cyclops and Wolverine well.

Agreed. Rosenberg wants to make Relevant and Enlightening Metaphors, but so far, it's just coming off as a kinda tone-deaf PSA with a side of misery porn. Good intentions and all that. The scene kind of falls apart on both fronts because it serves badly as a metaphor (as pointed out above, it borrows from a minority experience when the specific minority representation is completely absent from the franchise) and breaks the suspension of disbelief when applied on the surface level because it's so hard to swallow for this particular character, even moreso than when he had something similar happen to Warlock.

[Rosebunse]

I just feel like this whole series is too depressing. Every tragedy feels like it's ticking off a check list of bad things that could happen more than it feels like an organic development.

Heck, had this exact same scenario had happened in a slightly less depressing book, it may have worked, but now it just feels almost pornographic in terms of violence and depressing themes.