Superman & Doomsday: Clash and Rehash

[Doctor Know]

How many times have these two come to blows since 1993?

Death of Superman
Hunter/Prey
Doomsday Wars
Loeb/Ed McGuinness’ run
Justice League/Justice League Unlimited - Animated
Infinite Crisis
Superman: Doomsday - Animated
New Krypton
Reign of Doomsday
New 52 - An unshown battle which killed Nuperman. Complete with red skies.
Doomed
DC Rebirth
Batman v Superman
Death of Superman - Animated

That’s a lot of mileage for an unsophisticated Hulk with spikes.

Why do you think Doomsday has endeared so much?

Also, which encounters are your favorite?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Because Superman fighting a completely evil Hulk with spikes makes for awesome fight scenes.

[qwertyuiop1998]

Because Doomsday was one of few Superman rogues that could really give Superman good fight since he 98% time was holding back(Hell, Even in Our Worlds At War story Superman specifically said only fighting Doomsday he is using his full power in DOS)

[Vordan]

Jurgens uses him every chance he can, same with Hank Henshaw. DoS was the last successful massive “event” for the Superline until the birth of Jon. No one wants to use his other Rogues so they continue to decline in popularity. Doomsday is someone Supes can go all out against without Kryptonite hampering him. Doomsday killed him so you know when he shows up that Supes could die.

That about covers it. He’s very boring honestly but WB is obsessed with that story and since no one in the animation or movie departments are fans of Superman they just rehash his most popular story.

[Kuwagaton]

I think the funny thing is calling him a Hulk... because the things that make him the Hulk are the things that make him different from the Hulk, and most of Superman's foes in the process.

Superman began his career getting pushed off perches, leaping, and falling victim to the mysterious force called electricity. Most people who like Superman will tell you he is super because of his heart, will, and mind. His recurring villains typically oppose that, from Lex to Mxy to Prankster to Brainiac, to Killgrave and beyond. Parasite is usually as devious as he is dangerous. But Doomsday has sheer force. He doesn't want satisfaction from being seen as superior or to be understood. You can't sway him, there's no bargaining or sympathetic anti heroics. He's a bad baby and I'm being completely literal when I say that. If you want to compare him to the Hulk, you have to admit that even the Devil Hulk will talk to you and leave you alone if you talk to him the right way. The brutish Hulk wants peace or understanding and... he arguably won't even kill you. He can never be Doomsday and stay the Hulk. Doomsday can never be as dangerous as the Hulk and stay Doomsday, because Doomsday is dangerous where the Hulk is not.

That said I think Superman #175 would have been the perfect end of Doomsday if they would have let it, for those reasons. I also think Austen's Doomsday, which actually brought me to the regular comics, was a great and logical extension. Even though that sort of got off track and allegedly finished by some Finn-ish guy. You can have unreasoning with a being capable of reason and you can certainly suggest the Bertron/Superman thing goes further than it began.

Speaking of which, you have Hunter Prey where he dog walks damn Darkseid before breaking Superman's arm. Doomsday Wars is similar to both in that he works the "real" League just like he worked the B team, and also gains intelligence (via Brainiac). In both stories Jurgens gives him a good send off. As Doomsday as a concept is to be unstoppable, that teleporting loop is especially hard to top. That completing a trilogy would makes it a good end for his time with the character.

Notice a theme? He's a lot like the old Aeon Flux where he would just die an epic death constantly. But for him it just isn't enough. His gimmick being he can't be defeated the same way twice, that he biologically adapts to beat death, means that you can bring him in whenever you just feel like you have a good action climax to a Predator/Terminator/Alien type story. With the rule being you that can't just do what someone else did. I still find it awesomely hilarious that Rebirth opened with a six part fight where a female hero flew in and Doomsday got zapped with the Zone projector, then Man of Steel opened with a six part fight where a female hero flew in and Zaar got zapped with the Zone projector. Bendis knows the way.

Which other stories... I mean, another end that's good in a logical sense is getting run ragged by an angry Supermob. You never really see a movie where the bully monster gets stomped to death by a retaliatory crowd. I dunno, maybe Dream Warriors is close. But that and turning into a death mist are two interestingly opposite ends of the spectrum.

Tldr; Doomsday is literally rugged. He doesn't want his ego stroked, he wants his daddy choked. And you too because why not. Casuals can get it because he's finally a fistfighter to the death and his gimmick means that he always brings a weird variety of action for people who like action in Action Comics.

[Doctor Know]

I wanted to bring attention to Doomsday, because given his penchant for being able to overpower Superman and the entire league. There are other characters who could use some of that action.

Like Imperiex, Rampage, Mongul, Lobo, Draaga, Kalibak, the Furies, Nemesis Kid etc. They could use some exposure. You look at some of the examples I listed above, and their release dates. For awhile, Supes would fight Doomsday at least once a year.

[Kuwagaton]

That's sort of his thing and I'd imagine those characters are better served getting their own niche. Like how Mongul got his best story outside of his physical superiority.

Imperiex is the level above all of them, because that's how comics are. Once you tussle with the Silver Biker you have to upgrade to Galactor. Which of course is a double edged sword as you can't feature a character that much more powerful too frequently. So Imperiex was once over 15 years ago, and it's been about 20 for Dominus.

Meanwhile Doomsday has the strength to reappear as a solid but not absurd challenge. He's also serious, but not to the point where he's also not a self aware joke in some ways by design. I particularly think of Doomsday vs Six Pack by Garth Ennis and Man of Steel #75

[Doctor Know]

That's sort of his thing and I'd imagine those characters are better served getting their own niche. Like how Mongul got his best story outside of his physical superiority.

Imperiex is the level above all of them, because that's how comics are. Once you tussle with the Silver Biker you have to upgrade to Galactor. Which of course is a double edged sword as you can't feature a character that much more powerful too frequently. So Imperiex was once over 15 years ago, and it's been about 20 for Dominus.

Meanwhile Doomsday has the strength to reappear as a solid but not absurd challenge. He's also serious, but not to the point where he's also not a self aware joke in some ways by design. I particularly think of Doomsday vs Six Pack by Garth Ennis and Man of Steel #75

LMAO
Brilliant panel.


I've recently rewatched the LOSH cartoon from 10 years ago. Where they scaled Imperiex down from a cosmic level threat, to a guy who trade blows with Supermen and remain strong.

[Clark_Kent]

Pretty cool interview with Dan Jurgens about Hunter/Prey. It's a fun read.

https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/05/03/...y-hunter-prey/

[exile001]

I think the funny thing is calling him a Hulk... because the things that make him the Hulk are the things that make him different from the Hulk, and most of Superman's foes in the process.

Superman began his career getting pushed off perches, leaping, and falling victim to the mysterious force called electricity. Most people who like Superman will tell you he is super because of his heart, will, and mind. His recurring villains typically oppose that, from Lex to Mxy to Prankster to Brainiac, to Killgrave and beyond. Parasite is usually as devious as he is dangerous. But Doomsday has sheer force. He doesn't want satisfaction from being seen as superior or to be understood. You can't sway him, there's no bargaining or sympathetic anti heroics. He's a bad baby and I'm being completely literal when I say that. If you want to compare him to the Hulk, you have to admit that even the Devil Hulk will talk to you and leave you alone if you talk to him the right way. The brutish Hulk wants peace or understanding and... he arguably won't even kill you. He can never be Doomsday and stay the Hulk. Doomsday can never be as dangerous as the Hulk and stay Doomsday, because Doomsday is dangerous where the Hulk is not.

That said I think Superman #175 would have been the perfect end of Doomsday if they would have let it, for those reasons. I also think Austen's Doomsday, which actually brought me to the regular comics, was a great and logical extension. Even though that sort of got off track and allegedly finished by some Finn-ish guy. You can have unreasoning with a being capable of reason and you can certainly suggest the Bertron/Superman thing goes further than it began.

Speaking of which, you have Hunter Prey where he dog walks damn Darkseid before breaking Superman's arm. Doomsday Wars is similar to both in that he works the "real" League just like he worked the B team, and also gains intelligence (via Brainiac). In both stories Jurgens gives him a good send off. As Doomsday as a concept is to be unstoppable, that teleporting loop is especially hard to top. That completing a trilogy would makes it a good end for his time with the character.

Notice a theme? He's a lot like the old Aeon Flux where he would just die an epic death constantly. But for him it just isn't enough. His gimmick being he can't be defeated the same way twice, that he biologically adapts to beat death, means that you can bring him in whenever you just feel like you have a good action climax to a Predator/Terminator/Alien type story. With the rule being you that can't just do what someone else did. I still find it awesomely hilarious that Rebirth opened with a six part fight where a female hero flew in and Doomsday got zapped with the Zone projector, then Man of Steel opened with a six part fight where a female hero flew in and Zaar got zapped with the Zone projector. Bendis knows the way.

Which other stories... I mean, another end that's good in a logical sense is getting run ragged by an angry Supermob. You never really see a movie where the bully monster gets stomped to death by a retaliatory crowd. I dunno, maybe Dream Warriors is close. But that and turning into a death mist are two interestingly opposite ends of the spectrum.

Tldr; Doomsday is literally rugged. He doesn't want his ego stroked, he wants his daddy choked. And you too because why not. Casuals can get it because he's finally a fistfighter to the death and his gimmick means that he always brings a weird variety of action for people who like action in Action Comics.

All of this.

I've never understood the Doomsday is boring argument, which I liken to the Superman is boring argument. It is entirely down to what the writer is doing with him.

Superman has a million complicated villains (also Loophole), with intricate schemes and complex methods, but he doesn't have another enemy like Doomsday. An unthinking, virtually unstoppable monster who has the power to kill everything on a planet, Superman included.

I get the argument that Doomsday is a case of diminishing returns. Doomsday clones, brief cameos (Superman Vs Darkseid: Apokolipse Now!) and being mob-beaten by Kryptonians in just a few panels all diminish his threat. And obviously he can never kill Superman again, but Hunter/Prey, Doomsday Wars or even stories like Reign of Doomsday and Doomed shows that Doomsday can still be a huge threat. The writer just needs to be clever in how they use Doomsday and how he is stopped.