Who has a higher body count? Juggernaut or the Hulk?

[Ptrvc]

That's a little too convenient though

How? There is a lot of empty out west. It's also where Hulk tends to hang out.

[davew128]

Always holds back, goes out of the way to protect Innocents, incredible precision


Why does that sound so familiar?

Really this argument always comes down to who these explanations get to apply to and who they don't. But the real reason is that none of these characters or stories are about folks who accidentally kill hundreds of people Everytime they fight.

Neither is the Hulk. Because he's not just some monster for Thor,not Captain Marvel, or whoever to fight.

He's a character with his own stories, history, book, franchise, and fans. And I don't get why we are expected to bear the albatross of realism around are necks when the rest of the MU does not.

Because we see constant reminders of the other characters showing control. The Hulk despite that snippet from Cho, does NOT show control.

[JudicatorPrime]

Wah wah Marvel should write a character I don't even read the way I want!

I'm sick no to death of this argument. Go watch a Godzilla movie if you want a mass-murdering monster who saves the day.

No need to meet a legitimate observation with a whine of your own.

I DO read Hulk, since he shows up on team books that I buy.

And I DO watch Godzilla movies, and horror movies in general...which is why I feel the way that I do. Hulk should have a body count, because he's dealt just as much damage as Gojira on populated areas.

[Ptrvc]

Because we see constant reminders of the other characters showing control. The Hulk despite that snippet from Cho, does NOT show control.

Except for when they aren't. And you know they've all lost control.

Heck since Banner is always riding shotgun on some level it actually makes more sense that Hulk is more precise on not killing than the rest of them.

When Hulk blinded by fury Banner is a guiding hand, while when the rest of them have Asgardian Warrior Madness, have a fit of claustrophobia, go JEEEAN! Etc they've just lost control.

No need to meet a legitimate observation with a whine of your own.

I DO read Hulk, since he shows up on team books that I buy.

And I DO watch Godzilla movies, and horror movies in general...which is why I feel the way that I do. Hulk should have a body count, because he's dealt just as much damage as Gojira on populated areas.

Then let Hulk be Hulk and not a shallow Godzilla ripoff.

Also Horror isn't about body count. The potential of Hulk/Banner to give into the rage, the implications of what gamma does to people, releasing all that they've hidden from the world and themselves. Dread, that's what works best for Hulk.

Jason needs a body count but for Hulk it's counter productive.

In fact part of what makes Ewing's Hulk so horrifying is how much precision and control he has. More than he has ever had.

[JudicatorPrime]

Then let Hulk be Hulk and not a shallow Godzilla ripoff.

You do realize that Gojira and the Hulk share quite a bit in common, not the least being their atomic weapon origins and the fact that they are often considered forces of nature? The difference is that Hulk's is human nature.

Also Horror isn't about body count. The potential of Hulk/Banner to give into the rage, the implications of what gamma does to people, releasing all that they've hidden from the world and themselves. Dread, that's what works best for Hulk.

Jason needs a body count but for Hulk it's counter productive.

In fact part of what makes Ewing's Hulk so horrifying is how much precision and control he has. More than he has ever had.

"Body Count" would be the misdirection here. I think the point that we're all getting at is that it is highly inconceivable short of PIS and ridiculous plot armor for the Hulk to never have inflicted harm to any innocents in all of his rage-driven rampages. I don't think even Spider-Man, Captain America or Reed Richards can say that, and those are some highly intelligent and circumspect individuals not acting on blind, unfettered rage. I get why Hulk fans would want him not to have any innocent blood on his hands, but it just doesn't add up.

At least we both agree that Hulk is a horror story, even if we disagree that dread alone won't cut it. Sure, we could Poe this thing and make it all about the potentional of our own internal fears coming true. But what makes Hulk horrifying is that he has killed even when he's fully in control of his capacities. Absent that, no one would fear the Hulk. It's the likelihood of terminal violence, not the mere potential for it, that scares the bejeezus out of his friends and foes alike.

[RachelGrey]

Juggernaut has always operated as a pretty straight forward thief, breaks into a bank, steals the money, walks out and laughs at anyone who actually tries to get in his way or stop him. The only time in the past he tried to deliberately hurt people is usually when going after the X-Men and Charles because of his grudge. Juggernaut has been operating as an anti-hero for a pretty long time now. I can't remember the last time he was operating as a full out villain since him and Charles buried the hatchet.

[Ptrvc]

You do realize that Gojira and the Hulk share quite a bit in common, not the least being their atomic weapon origins and the fact that they are often considered forces of nature? The difference is that Hulk's is human nature.

That's why I used Godzilla as an example, yes.

"Body Count" would be the misdirection here. I think the point that we're all getting at is that it is highly inconceivable short of PIS and ridiculous plot armor for the Hulk to never have inflicted harm to any innocents in all of his rage-driven rampages. I don't think even Spider-Man, Captain America or Reed Richards can say that, and those are some highly intelligent and circumspect individuals not acting on blind, unfettered rage. I get why Hulk fans would want him not to have any innocent blood on his hands, but it just doesn't add up.

At least we both agree that Hulk is a horror story, even if we disagree that dread alone won't cut it. Sure, we could Poe this thing and make it all about the potentional of our own internal fears coming true. But what makes Hulk horrifying is that he has killed even when he's fully in control of his capacities. Absent that, no one would fear the Hulk. It's the likelihood of terminal violence, not the mere potential for it, that scares the bejeezus out of his friends and foes alike.

None of it adds up though. The Marvel Universe is not realistic, and never has been. Realism would be Bruce Banner dying a horrific and painful death over several weeks, not gaining super powers.

Hulk as a concept doesn't work if he kills innocent people. Then he's just another monster to be put down or at best another Dr. Doom, whose useful to keep around when the sky opens up and the space gods start falling from the sky.

If Hulk kills Innocents then Ross is right and the comic is pointless the question answered he's just another monster.

[davew128]

Juggernaut has always operated as a pretty straight forward thief, breaks into a bank, steals the money, walks out and laughs at anyone who actually tries to get in his way or stop him. The only time in the past he tried to deliberately hurt people is usually when going after the X-Men and Charles because of his grudge. Juggernaut has been operating as an anti-hero for a pretty long time now. I can't remember the last time he was operating as a full out villain since him and Charles buried the hatchet.

Issue #1 of the latest Thor series.

[Superfan90]

The Hulk I know and love (savage Hulk) has never killed anyone. I don't like the later evil or amoral hulks so can't say.

[JudicatorPrime]

Hulk as a concept doesn't work if he kills innocent people.

Well, there's more than one way to kill a man without him skipping a breath. And this is why I'm not a writer, because that would be a story that I'd tell. Hulk goes on a rampage, accidently knocking down a building two or three blocks away from the main conflagration, and trapping a man under rubble for weeks. When it's all said and done, the man is an amputee, burn victim, paralyzed and traumatized for life. No, he's not dead, but good luck telling the difference. And that's without mentioning the beautiful fiancée that left him, or the lavish career that he lost on account of his injuries. The opening flash page would be Hulk coming face to face with the true consequences of his rage. Now there's a life lesson that I'd be more than happy to impart to the kids.

[PCN24454]

Well, there's more than one way to kill a man without him skipping a breath. And this is why I'm not a writer, because that would be a story that I'd tell. Hulk goes on a rampage, accidently knocking down a building two or three blocks away from the main conflagration, and trapping a man under rubble for weeks. When it's all said and done, the man is an amputee, burn victim, paralyzed and traumatized for life. No, he's not dead, but good luck telling the difference. And that's without mentioning the beautiful fiancée that left him, or the lavish career that he lost on account of his injuries. The opening flash page would be Hulk coming face to face with the true consequences of his rage. Now there's a life lesson that I'd be more than happy to impart to the kids.

Then read Amazing Spider-Man "Something Can Stop the Juggernaut".

[MichelleDiMera]

How? There is a lot of empty out west. It's also where Hulk tends to hang out.

Every single time? No way..lol

[Killerbee911]

Higher Body count. Hulk slept with Caiera, Juggernaut slept with She Hulk. That's all I can remember so they are about even. Oh you guys aren't talking about that body count ..Never mind ..Carry on

[Username taken]

The Hulk has purposely killed one person that i know of and that was fairly recent. However, the Hulk has been mind wiped, separated from Banner and just generally lost his mind and gone on rampages that have indeed killed a number of people. But the classic Hulk has never deliberately killed anyone, even in his "controlled rampages".

I don't know if Juggernaut has actually killed anyone though.

[PCN24454]

I don't know if Juggernaut has actually killed anyone though.

Juggernaut's definitely tried.