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  1. #301
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    She’s the one who got the most developed backstory (in light of Gwen dying......I feel had Gwen lived Peter would have married her......)

    It’s possible that Peter would always love Gwen, as the first really serious girlfriend/ one of the many he couldn’t save......hence whey he fights harder for MJ (that and they’re cute together, and I miss their moments of almost sitcom bad timing, like Peter attempt to be in the mood only for MJ to have company, or even moments where like when he introduced her to Cap (Back when his identity was a closer secret......I know a few heroes know, like the Fantastic Four, his teammates in the New Avengers, Black Cat, his sister, J Jonah Jameson, Venom, Carlie Cooper, Norman Osborn)

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decoy View Post
    I feel had Gwen lived Peter would have married her......)
    Given her history up to that point, that wouldn't have been likely.

    If Gwen had lived, Cownay would have split them up anyway. He wanted Peter to move on to MJ regardless as MJ just fit better.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 05-20-2019 at 04:57 AM.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Given her history up to that point, that wouldn't have been likely.

    If Gwen had lived, Cownay would have split them up anyway. He wanted Peter to move on to MJ regardless as MJ just fit better.
    Gwen never would have married Pete if she found out he was Spider-Man. Why? She blamed Spidy for her father's ( Captain Stacy) death, and hated him. Even beyond that, MJ was set up to be the one for Pete ( even going back to Ditko).For that reason it was highly unlikely it would be Betty either. One thing I always loved about MJ was ( when well written of course), is her toughness and to have no powers, and be with a superhero that is required. That is especially true when it comes to Peter who lacks self confidence and leadership skills.

  4. #304
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    Okay, saying this as someone who vastly prefers Peter/MJ, I really don't think it's fair to assume Gwen's hatred of Peter would have lasted forever. It wouldn't be impossible to give her an arc of her coming to realize that her father's death wasn't Peter's fault and frankly this ignores that the Spider-Man cast is filled with examples of characters growing and evolving past what they were. Flash going from an egotistical bully to Peter's best friend, MJ going from a party girl who didn't want commitment to being someone Peter could share his life with.

    It's not set in stone that Gwen would hate Spider-Man forever.

  5. #305
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    Flash was never Peter's best friend. A friend maybe, but Harry and MJ were far closer to him.

  6. #306

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    It's not set in stone that Gwen would hate Spider-Man forever.
    No it isn't set in stone for Gwen to hate Spider-Man forever. It isn't set in stone for Jameson to hate Spider-Man forever either but it took one reboot which undid the first unmasking where Jameson's initial reaction to Peter being Spider-Man was outright hatred, anger, betrayal, and hypocrisy creating a second continuity where the second unmasking showed that Jameson had undergone a great deal of trauma and personal and professional failures to bring him humility and self-awareness to lead him to that place of acceptance.

    It can be done but to be done well it needs to have a lot of work laid out to go there. At the time of her death it wasn't there at all. Gwen's original reaction Peter being Spider-Man in ASM #87 is hysteria. She blamed Peter for her father's death so much that she volunteered to serve a white supremacist like Sam Bullitt who's "tough on crime" laws appealed to her yearning for revenge in ASM #91-92. That suggests a pretty deep level of dislike. It's also stories which really get into her as a character and not just 'Peter's love interest and George's daughter' which she was otherwise framed as. She hated Spider-Man so much that she left NY to London without telling Peter. A writer has to work with the character it has to get to where they want them to be. In USM, Bendis had Ultimate Gwen blame Peter for her father's death and it took quite a few issues for her to first find out, then get over it, forgive Peter, become close again with him, like a sister...and then Post-Ultimatum, start dating him. So there has to be a long arc.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Okay, saying this as someone who vastly prefers Peter/MJ, I really don't think it's fair to assume Gwen's hatred of Peter would have lasted forever. It wouldn't be impossible to give her an arc of her coming to realize that her father's death wasn't Peter's fault and frankly this ignores that the Spider-Man cast is filled with examples of characters growing and evolving past what they were. Flash going from an egotistical bully to Peter's best friend, MJ going from a party girl who didn't want commitment to being someone Peter could share his life with.

    It's not set in stone that Gwen would hate Spider-Man forever.
    That was the kind of thing their relationship was built on. Think of the classic Superman love triangle. Clark loves Lois, Lois loves Superman, Lois isn't interested in Clark.

    Spider-Man was an inversion of that. Gwen loved Peter. Gwen hated Spider-Man.

    (I do think it's funny that Black Cat is an inversion of Peter/Gwen. Felicia loves Spider-Man, but is indifferent to Peter.)

  8. #308

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    (I do think it's funny that Black Cat is an inversion of Peter/Gwen. Felicia loves Spider-Man, but is indifferent to Peter.)
    The major original wrinkle there is that's by choice. She knows Spider-Man is Peter, and still prefers Spider-Man. Gwen likes Peter without knowing he's Spider-Man so she falls in love with what is basically half-a-person and not really the most truthful and complete version of Peter. That's always the problem with writers insisting or setting up girls liking "plain ol' Pete" because plain ol' Pete is a liar. Whereas Felicia knows the full side, the full truth, but still prefers the Spider part of the equation.

    Felicia and Gwen are connected since they touch on Peter's constant sense of impostor syndrome. The sense that he will be rejected if people know the real him. ASM#87 played on that, as did the issue where Peter revealed his identity to Felicia. Gwen reacted with hysteria to seeing Peter be Spider-Man, while Felicia couldn't hide being let down by Spider-Man being a college student living in poor student accommodations.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Okay, saying this as someone who vastly prefers Peter/MJ, I really don't think it's fair to assume Gwen's hatred of Peter would have lasted forever. It wouldn't be impossible to give her an arc of her coming to realize that her father's death wasn't Peter's fault and frankly this ignores that the Spider-Man cast is filled with examples of characters growing and evolving past what they were. Flash going from an egotistical bully to Peter's best friend, MJ going from a party girl who didn't want commitment to being someone Peter could share his life with.

    It's not set in stone that Gwen would hate Spider-Man forever.
    I agree that Gwen hating Spider-Man forever is not set in stone, nor do I blame her for Sam Bullet.That said; it is less likely her not hating Spidy then MJ going from party girl to wife.Why? In the case of MJ it is called growing up ( which you are supposed to do in life ( unlike what Slott did with Pete)). One very interesting thing about MJ is she waa based on the actress and entertainer Ann-Margaret ( Red hair and all). In fact if you named the hottest redheads in movie history she along with Rita Hayworth, Raquel Welch and Clara Bow are in the running. Ann-Margaret was known as a party girl type ( like in Viva Las Vegas and Kitten With A Whip) but she married actor Roger Smith and took care of him after he had an accident. She also became a step-mother to his kids Basically she grew up.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Flash was never Peter's best friend. A friend maybe, but Harry and MJ were far closer to him.
    Except Peter himself called him his best friend several times after they became close, especially around the time when he was dating Felicia.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    Except Peter himself called him his best friend several times after they became close, especially around the time when he was dating Felicia.
    Yeah, I brain farted. Sorry.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The major original wrinkle there is that's by choice. She knows Spider-Man is Peter, and still prefers Spider-Man. Gwen likes Peter without knowing he's Spider-Man so she falls in love with what is basically half-a-person and not really the most truthful and complete version of Peter. That's always the problem with writers insisting or setting up girls liking "plain ol' Pete" because plain ol' Pete is a liar. Whereas Felicia knows the full side, the full truth, but still prefers the Spider part of the equation.

    Felicia and Gwen are connected since they touch on Peter's constant sense of impostor syndrome. The sense that he will be rejected if people know the real him. ASM#87 played on that, as did the issue where Peter revealed his identity to Felicia. Gwen reacted with hysteria to seeing Peter be Spider-Man, while Felicia couldn't hide being let down by Spider-Man being a college student living in poor student accommodations.
    That is true about Gwen and Felicia which is why it would not work long term with them.But there is still one person who csn handle both the Spider and the man, when allowed to by Marvel writters and editors ( oddly enough better then Peter himself). MJ. Which is why he went to HER instead if Aunt May or anyone else after Gwen's death and of course married her.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 05-20-2019 at 11:08 AM.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    If Gwen had lived, Cownay would have split them up anyway. He wanted Peter to move on to MJ regardless as MJ just fit better.
    If Gwen hadn't been killed off, there's a chance Stan Lee would have chosen to marry her and Peter in the newspaper strip.

    Then half this forum would be absolutely furious that Joe Quesada unmarried them 25 years later.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    If Gwen hadn't been killed off, there's a chance Stan Lee would have chosen to marry her and Peter in the newspaper strip.
    Stan could easily have involved Gwen in the newspaper strip from the very start. It was an alternative continuity. He chose not to, he instead used MJ and an original character called Carol Jennings. Carol was actually the prevailing love interest for a while before the business with the cult of Loomis. Gwen was established to have died in the newspaper strip's canon at a later date

    Then half this forum would be absolutely furious that Joe Quesada unmarried them 25 years later.
    Heaven help us if both Sins Past AND OMD applied to Gwen
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 05-20-2019 at 01:00 PM.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Stan could easily have involved Gwen in the newspaper strip from the very start. It was an alternative continuity. He chose not to, he instead used MJ and an original character called Carol Jennings.
    He likely chose not to use Gwen, because she was dead in the comic book. Were she alive in the comic book, it's very likely Gwen would have appeared in the newspaper strip.

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