I know that MJ is Peter's main squeeze...

[boots]

The key to any movie or TV show is do I think of the character or the person playing the character.Taking this to Spider-Man, I actually preferred Zendaya as MJ when compared to Kirsten Dunst. Why? Because her MJ had more bite, and a well written MJ is not sweet and innocent. like Dunst portrayed her, she is tough and is a fighter. On the other side of this, in Batman and Robin I see George Clooney ( who I do not like), not Bruce Wayne/Batman and thus, consider him the worst Batman ( Val Kilmer and Ben Afflick included).

oh yeah, bad casting choices can be made no matter the actor's gender or ethnicity or sexuality or whatever...no doubt.

but it seems a lot of audiences enjoy the new "mj", you and i included.

[Frontier]

It reminded me of "Robin" in Nolan's Dark Knight Rises.

Although John Blake stopped being a thing past that movie while the MCU is still using an "MJ" who isn't Mary Jane Watson and only barely resembles the character .

[Inversed]

Although John Blake stopped being a thing past that movie while the MCU is still using an "MJ" who isn't Mary Jane Watson and only barely resembles the character .

So she's a "Mary Jane-like" character that isn't named Mary Jane, but her problem is that she's not named Mary Jane and doesn't resemble Mary Jane?

Honestly, I think the real reason she wasn't named that was to keep it a surprise/secret that Michelle would become the "MJ" for Peter. The casual moviegoer/the vast majority know who Mary Jane is, but don't know who Liz is, and while we know Liz won't ultimately go anywhere, they don't, so by not giving her the name, it creates an easier illusion to buy that Peter could end up with Liz and underestimate Michelle as just a side/comic relief. Meanwhile if she was Mary Jane, everyone would know her story and where she would be ending up, leading everyone to focus directly on her and taking away from the emphasis on Liz. And now as FFH has been showing, she has the opening to jump into the full "MJ" role for Peter, but with her own unique persona that many (including me) really like.

(I think the race thing is probably also a factor with the change just not as big as the storytelling decision)

[Kevinroc]

So she's a "Mary Jane-like" character that isn't named Mary Jane, but her problem is that she's not named Mary Jane and doesn't resemble Mary Jane?

Honestly, I think the real reason she wasn't named that was to keep it a surprise/secret that Michelle would become the "MJ" for Peter. The casual moviegoer/the vast majority know who Mary Jane is, but don't know who Liz is, and while we know Liz won't ultimately go anywhere, they don't, so by not giving her the name, it creates an easier illusion to buy that Peter could end up with Liz and underestimate Michelle as just a side/comic relief. Meanwhile if she was Mary Jane, everyone would know her story and where she would be ending up, leading everyone to focus directly on her and taking away from the emphasis on Liz. And now as FFH has been showing, she has the opening to jump into the full "MJ" role for Peter, but with her own unique persona that many (including me) really like.

(I think the race thing is probably also a factor with the change just not as big as the storytelling decision)

She's MJ, but not MJ, basically.

That isn't confusing at all.

[Celgress]

She's MJ, but not MJ, basically.

That isn't confusing at all.

LOL, indeed it isn't.

[Kevinroc]

LOL, indeed it isn't.

Essentially, they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want their MJ to be seen as their own character that is different from the comics, but they still use the "MJ" name, which means something within the context of Spider-Man that they expect the audience to know.

Honestly, they should have just said they had cast Zendaya as Mary Jane, and ignored anyone who had a problem with that. Mary Jane looks like she does in the comics because John Romita based her off of Ann-Margret from the film Bye Bye Birdie. Society doesn't just think that is what beauty means in the 2010s. And they could have made a powerful statement about that.

Instead they wanted to have their cake (that she's not Mary Jane, traditionally portrayed as a white girl with red hair) and eat it too (but she is "MJ"). It's dumb.

[Lee]

And now as FFH has been showing, she has the opening to jump into the full "MJ" role for Peter, but with her own unique persona that many (including me) really like.

Across the Spider-Man franchise, Mary Jane/MJ has become more of a name applied to the primary love interest, rather than a consistent character. The PS4 Mary Jane and the MCU MJ are very different characters, and both are far removed from the Mary Jane of the Lee/Romita comics.

[Celgress]

Honestly, they should have just said they had cast Zendaya as Mary Jane, and ignored anyone who had a problem with that....

In an ideal world this is what would have happened. I think Zendaya would make a badass modern "real" MJ once her character fully develops heck we see flashes of that greatest now.

[Frontier]

So she's a "Mary Jane-like" character that isn't named Mary Jane, but her problem is that she's not named Mary Jane and doesn't resemble Mary Jane?

I'm not even sure if she's a "Mary Jane-like" character. She doesn't even really resemble Ultimate MJ that much in my opinion. So far I just haven't seen what I feel are the pre-requisite Mary Jane traits to even think of calling her "Mary Jane-like."

Honestly, I think the real reason she wasn't named that was to keep it a surprise/secret that Michelle would become the "MJ" for Peter. The casual moviegoer/the vast majority know who Mary Jane is, but don't know who Liz is, and while we know Liz won't ultimately go anywhere, they don't, so by not giving her the name, it creates an easier illusion to buy that Peter could end up with Liz and underestimate Michelle as just a side/comic relief. Meanwhile if she was Mary Jane, everyone would know her story and where she would be ending up, leading everyone to focus directly on her and taking away from the emphasis on Liz. And now as FFH has been showing, she has the opening to jump into the full "MJ" role for Peter, but with her own unique persona that many (including me) really like.

The "reveal" seemed to fall kind of flat with people or just kind of get brushed over so it seemed kind of pointless in the long run.

I feel like it's a disservice to the character of Mary Jane Watson to just think of "MJ" as a role that an OC character can fulfill rather then actually using the genuine article. A character with an "L.L." name doesn't mean they can just replace Lois Lane.

Poor Liz .

Across the Spider-Man franchise, Mary Jane/MJ has become more of a name applied to the primary love interest, rather than a consistent character. The PS4 Mary Jane and the MCU MJ are very different characters, and both are far removed from the Mary Jane of the Lee/Romita comics.

PS4!MJ is basically a grown-up Ultimate MJ.

Into the Spider-Verse MJ seemed more Lee/Romita but we barely got much with her beyond a few lines and visuals.

MCU "MJ" is basically a completely original character as far as I am concerned.

Honestly, they should have just said they had cast Zendaya as Mary Jane, and ignored anyone who had a problem with that. Mary Jane looks like she does in the comics because John Romita based her off of Ann-Margret from the film Bye Bye Birdie. Society doesn't just think that is what beauty means in the 2010s. And they could have made a powerful statement about that.

I dunno, I don't think Mary Jane's looks are "dated."

[Kevinroc]

Do people need MCU MJ to refer to Peter as "Tiger"?

[Frontier]

Do people need MCU MJ to refer to Peter as "Tiger"?

That depends. How far are they going to take giving her Mary Jane Watson traits without her actually being Mary Jane Watson?

I don't know if it would fit Michelle's personality either, to be honest. Even PS4!MJ only called him that twice (and that's counting DLC).

[Kevinroc]

I dunno, I don't think Mary Jane's looks are "dated."

That's not what I'm saying.

MCU "MJ" is basically a completely original character as far as I am concerned.

The character was robbed of any kind of claim of being an OC the second they decided she should be called "MJ" in-universe.

That depends. How far are they going to take giving her Mary Jane Watson traits without her actually being Mary Jane Watson?

I don't know if it would fit Michelle's personality either, to be honest. Even PS4!MJ only called him that twice (and that's counting DLC).

She is the MCU version of MJ. Dumb naming decisions aside.

[Frontier]

The character was robbed of any kind of claim of being an OC the second they decided she should be called "MJ" in-universe.

She's still an OC as far as I'm concerned so long as her name is "Michelle Jones" and she's characterized like she is in Homecoming.

Like, we brought up John Blake before, but calling him "Robin" doesn't mean I think of him as Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, or any of the other Robins. It's just a nod more then anything else.

[boots]

but we could say they occupy "that space" in that universe

[Frontier]

but we could say they occupy "that space" in that universe

I guess that's true, but it doesn't seem any different to me compared to when they gave Gwen some Mary Jane traits in the ASM movies.