I know that MJ is Peter's main squeeze...

[Lee]

There are two primary reasons why Peter married MJ and it lasted. 1: Unlike most comic books ( Superman is an exception where Clark Kent is almost as important as Superman himself) the alterego of the hero ( Peter Parker) is every bit as important to Amazing as Spider-Man. That is quite different say compared to Miles Morales who is not as important as Spider-Man to his comic. Since Peter is so important, naturally there will be relationships not related to Spider-Man. It was and is MJ, but it was also 616 Gwen and Betty. 2: 616 MJ is a great character, so within Amazing ( as opposed to say MCU, RYV or other universe) she does not require much alteration. Does this mean MJ is perfect? No but she grew up from her party girl days which is much more natural then say giving Jane Foster or Betty Ross superpowers.

I think it's more that Marvel had written themselves into a corner.

They didn't want Spider-Man married, because it aged him. But they didn't want Spider-Man divorced or widowed, because that would have aged him even more.

[Zeitgeist]

I feel like that story would best be served in an AU story dedicated to it. Otherwise it ignores Felicia's role in the Spider cast dynamic. (Not that that seems to have been a concern of Marvel's for a long while.)

Hell, tell the AU story from Felicia's perspective.

It doesn't ignore it at all, just takes it from that point to a new place for a while before the status quo is inevitably restored. Not sure why we need AU's just to stretch characters in different manners - we've had Doc Ock be Spider-Man and Peter be a wealthy scientist/industrialist without use of them, after all.

[Snoop Dogg]

Because doing things in Earth Prime requires risk, investment, and commitment, kinda like a marriage.

[Tuck]

and Peter be a wealthy scientist/industrialist without use of them, after all.

And we're going to have to mostly ignore that that was part of Peter's history in the long run for the book to work.

Pretty much how May is treated.

[shooshoomanjoe]

I know she's not popular but I miss the Michellini/Larsen MJ.

[Huntsman Spider]

Because doing things in Earth Prime requires risk, investment, and commitment, kinda like a marriage.

Wise observation. I mean that.

[Zeitgeist]

And we're going to have to mostly ignore that that was part of Peter's history in the long run for the book to work.

That's the way it's always been. We start mentally waving away technical inconsistencies from the moment we pick up the book - like the fact things that happened in universe 5-10 years ago were actually written in the 60s, completely with 60s fashion, technology and terminology. Part and parcel.

[VolcanikTiger86]

I didn't say anything about marriage. But even Green Lantern (Alan Scott) has/had (because DC continuity is DC continuity) a relationship with his former villain Harlequin (not to be confused with Harley Quinn from the Batman comics).

My point is most superheroes tend to have romantic relationships with other superheroes. It's actually pretty standard.

OK maybe i think it depends on what you term a hero for example i wouldnt say Harley Quinn was a hero or even Black Cat, Sharon Carter isnt a super hero a super agent maybe but not a super hero.
However what i am saying is look at Tony Stark, his most iconionic love interest is Pepper because MCU before hand he never really had one.

How many love interests does Batman have (a lot) or Daredevil and for me its the creative freedom to write the story you want which is part of why i'm not a massive Gerry Conway fan.
If you as a writer pitch a Peter/Carol Danvers, Peter/Gwen, Peter/Natasha or even Peter/Carlie story (and it would have to be really good to get those offices talking) but you should have the freedom to do it without a vocal portion of the fanbase looking for your head.
Tying Peter down to just one doesnt allow you to do that without making it an AU and having to deal with the marriage which automatically means you have a steeper hill to climb becuase of reasons.

In Marvel moreso than DC. Marvel in general are largely team books, and they tend to be bereft of the rich civilian supporting cast and society that DC Comics have.

Spider-Man is the major exception, and there's a reason he's often grouped alongside Superman and Batman more than other Marvel characters because at the end of the day he's got more in common with that then other Marvel characters.

That presence of a deep supporting cast of civilians and so on.

I'm sorry what deep supporting cast of civilians does Batman have i can count 3 regular characters Jim Gordon, Alfred and Lucius Fox the other GCPD detectives dont get that much Spotlight well from what i have seen
Superman mostly has the Daily Planet which is were Clark works and his parents

Yeah did i also mention most of these people dont support the hero because they dont know who the hero truly is.

Spider-Man and Mary Jane is easily the only major superhero/civilian marriage in Marvel's entire history. That alone makes it worthy of preserving.

So what every publisher has to have a superhero/civilian marriage, i'm sorry but i dont think it is worth preserving if you dont agree with the direction for whatever reason, OMD is a hated story for one reason the execution sucked major balls, some disagree with what it accomplished others didnt like how they did it but was ok with how it was done and others may have hated MJ and the marriage from the beginining

Because Mary Jane is among the highest profile civilian characters in Marvel's history and certainly for most of her history far more famous and well known than Marvel's eternally-thinner-than-DC's female superhero bench.

Which wouldn't be difficult as in the 60's Wonder Woman was their most popular character while Marvel had Susan Storm, Jean Grey, Mary Jane and Storm.

[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4383884]Officially, Susan Storm is Marvel's "First lady" but in actual fact, it was Mary Jane, which Marvel's then President Alan Fine pointed out at one point when the Raimi movies came out. [Quote]
I'm sorry what, Susan Storm is Marvel's First Lady because she was the first Marvel female character to appear in a main role 5 years before Mary Jane did and 2 before Jean Grey that's why plus she is a member of Marvel's first family.

And emotionally, people have always been more invested in them then say, Susan and Reed, both of them being fairly bland characters.

Speak for yourself I don't think Sue is a Bland character, yes there could be improvements made on Reed though

Isn’t that what makes it a soap opera?

More than likely but then again its those stories that i personally could do without.

[Kevinroc]

OK maybe i think it depends on what you term a hero for example i wouldnt say Harley Quinn was a hero or even Black Cat, Sharon Carter isnt a super hero a super agent maybe but not a super hero.
However what i am saying is look at Tony Stark, his most iconionic love interest is Pepper because MCU before hand he never really had one.

How many love interests does Batman have (a lot) or Daredevil and for me its the creative freedom to write the story you want which is part of why i'm not a massive Gerry Conway fan.
If you as a writer pitch a Peter/Carol Danvers, Peter/Gwen, Peter/Natasha or even Peter/Carlie story (and it would have to be really good to get those offices talking) but you should have the freedom to do it without a vocal portion of the fanbase looking for your head.
Tying Peter down to just one doesnt allow you to do that without making it an AU and having to deal with the marriage which automatically means you have a steeper hill to climb becuase of reasons.

A vocal fanbase looking over a writer's shoulder comes with the territory. I don't see some people saying "Nick Spencer should be allowed to explore Peter/MJ if he wants to," you know.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

However what i am saying is look at Tony Stark, his most iconionic love interest is Pepper because MCU before hand he never really had one.

That was insisted on by Robert Downey Jr. Originally they were going to take a "Bond girl" approach but RDJ is friends with Gwyneth Paltrow and he wanted her to have a big role in these expensive and lucrative films, so that led to a change of plans and junking of stories (such as Happy and Pepper becoming a couple as in the comics, which had to be thrown out once Pepper became reconfigured as Tony's one and only in the films. That detail hasn't transferred to the comics which I bet is one of many reasons why Iron Man comics as a rule have not benefited majorly from the success of those films. RDJ simply didn't like playing that kind of character.

How many love interests does Batman have (a lot) or Daredevil and for me its the creative freedom to write the story you want...

Both Batman and Daredevil are womanizers and ladies' men (as is Tony Stark in the comics). But Peter Parker as Stan Lee and Joe Quesada among others point out isn't one. As it is, the comics in both 616 and Ultimate have a field day with the really gorgeous girls he has dated over the years, but the more people Spider-Man dates so on and so forth, the more off it's gonna look and the more it dilutes and changes the character. Stan Lee himself pointed out that it's in Peter's nature to find a girl and settle down, and it was realistic for him to get married unlike playboy types like Johnny Storm or others.

...which is part of why i'm not a massive Gerry Conway fan.

Not sure what you mean there. Gerry Conway of course prefers Peter/MJ but he's also a professional and he also felt that marrying them was a mistake and that it should never happen in the main continuity (he's okay with it being in alternate timelines).

If you as a writer pitch a Peter/Carol Danvers, Peter/Gwen, Peter/Natasha or even Peter/Carlie story (and it would have to be really good to get those offices talking) but you should have the freedom to do it without a vocal portion of the fanbase looking for your head.

You mean you want to take a pre-established story and mythos in a new direction and not face controversy, pushback and consequences for doing so. That's certainly a very idealistic framework that cannot ever be universally observed or enforced.

Tying Peter down to just one doesnt allow you to do that without making it an AU and having to deal with the marriage which automatically means you have a steeper hill to climb becuase of reasons.

If all that you are interested in is shipping Peter Parker to as many different people out there then I think fanfiction is open to that far better than the actual comics will ever be. At the end of the day Peter's gonna be defined by the character and stories told about him and his supporting cast in the first 25-30 years of publication and Mary Jane fits that period better than anyone. I mean Peter and MJ actually got married on Spider-Man's 25th Year Anniversary in publ. history.

I'm sorry what deep supporting cast of civilians does Batman have i can count 3 regular characters Jim Gordon, Alfred and Lucius Fox the other GCPD detectives dont get that much Spotlight well from what i have seen

I'd add Aaron Cash from the Batman Arkham games. Interesting point:he's a character Dan Slott created for Arkham Asylum: Living Hell. Leslie Thompkins, Harvey Bullock, Renee Montoya (who's gone on to become a legacy character for the Question). The fact is Gordon, Alfred, and Lucius Fox are as famous and iconic as any superhero and Batman's supporting cast is still deeper than many Marvel or DC characters. And in any case, the best Batman stories have always excelled at creating these amazing civilian characters. Look at Batman the Animated Series which had the Gray Ghost, Charlie Collins, among others.

So what every publisher has to have a superhero/civilian marriage,

In the case of Marvel, having one, i.e. Spider-Man/MJ is better than none, and certainly more variety than every other marriage in their pages showing endogamy.

[Zeitgeist]

A vocal fanbase looking over a writer's shoulder comes with the territory. I don't see some people saying "Nick Spencer should be allowed to explore Peter/MJ if he wants to," you know.

To a degree. This is the same Nick Spencer that received death threads for "turning Captain America into a nazi", after all.
Said fanbases need to let a story be told in full and then swear bloody justice

[Zeitgeist]

I'm sorry what, Susan Storm is Marvel's First Lady because she was the first Marvel female character to appear in a main role 5 years before Mary Jane did and 2 before Jean Grey that's why plus she is a member of Marvel's first family.

You'll get used to the selective information

[Kevinroc]

To a degree. This is the same Nick Spencer that received death threads for "turning Captain America into a nazi", after all.
Said fanbases need to let a story be told in full and then swear bloody justice

Obviously to a degree. Death threats are absolutely and unequivocally wrong.

[VolcanikTiger86]

A vocal fan base looking over a writer's shoulder comes with the territory. I don't see some people saying "Nick Spencer should be allowed to explore Peter/MJ if he wants to," you know.

Ok you are mostly right with this but IMHO partial misinformed, to clarify a couple of things first) yes a fan base can be vocal and everyone has the right to their view but and this is a big but it seems to me that more and more fans think that they know the truth and that anything different from it is wrong for the character because of reasons example I don't think Peter is a everyman why because a) he is a genius and b) he has very good luck with the ladies while the thought makes me want $!&*^$% razor blades others will disagree because of the issues he has which is fine but it has happened the "real" Spider-Man can only grow with Mary Jane as his wife nothing else will do and second) the vocal portion of the fan base are getting what they want or are been given hope so they aren't going to give off crap about it well in my experience anyway

That was insisted on by Robert Downey Jr. Originally they were going to take a "Bond girl" approach but RDJ is friends with Gwyneth Paltrow and he wanted her to have a big role in these expensive and lucrative films, so that led to a change of plans and junking of stories (such as Happy and Pepper becoming a couple as in the comics, which had to be thrown out once Pepper became reconfigured as Tony's one and only in the films. That detail hasn't transferred to the comics which I bet is one of many reasons why Iron Man comics as a rule have not benefited majorly from the success of those films. RDJ simply didn't like playing that kind of character.

I didn't know that Jack, interesting but RDJ is human but its a little disappointing they didn't introduce some of them maybe next time.

Both Batman and Daredevil are womanizers and ladies' men (as is Tony Stark in the comics). But Peter Parker as Stan Lee and Joe Quesada among others point out isn't one. As it is, the comics in both 616 and Ultimate have a field day with the really gorgeous girls he has dated over the years, but the more people Spider-Man dates so on and so forth, the more off it's gonna look and the more it dilutes and changes the character. Stan Lee himself pointed out that it's in Peter's nature to find a girl and settle down, and it was realistic for him to get married unlike playboy types like Johnny Storm or others.

I don't think Daredevil is a womanizer Bruce & Tony yes because his mission generally comes first and Tony just throws money at things but not Daredevil i think he would be similar to what i think Peter is when he is in a relationship he is committed to that relationship but if it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out however to your point Stan Lee also said that if he knew Spider-Man would be so successfully then he wouldnt have had Peter graduate High School so quickly so marriage would never have come up or come up much later.

Not sure what you mean there. Gerry Conway of course prefers Peter/MJ but he's also a professional and he also felt that marrying them was a mistake and that it should never happen in the main continuity (he's okay with it being in alternate timelines).

Well I'm neutral about the marriage but IMHO don't know about the professional bit he killed Gwen off because he thought that it was wish fulfillment on Stan's party and that Gwen was too perfect for him but MJ wasn't so opinions vary.

You mean you want to take a pre-established story and mythos in a new direction and not face controversy, pushback and consequences for doing so. That's certainly a very idealistic framework that cannot ever be universally observed or enforced.

Very true its idealistic but think about it we wouldn't have had a need for OMD if they wasn't a marriage so basically we got OMD because years ago Marvel wrote themselves into a corner because they wont divorce because it ages the character but they thought the marriage was a mistake, for me I just want engaging stories preferable with a happy fuzzy ending that inspires me.

If all that you are interested in is shipping Peter Parker to as many different people out there then I think fanfiction is open to that far better than the actual comics will ever be. At the end of the day Peter's gonna be defined by the character and stories told about him and his supporting cast in the first 25-30 years of publication and Mary Jane fits that period better than anyone. I mean Peter and MJ actually got married on Spider-Man's 25th Year Anniversary in publ. history.

I love (really hate) that this is the case because Gwen, Liz, Betty, Felicia are in that period too but the point i'm making here was that the vocal pro marriage fans who says that the only way that the "real" spider-man can develop is with MJ as his wife because she is her soulmate and no one can come close but she had over 20 years to earn that good will now new characters have to do what Mary Jane did in 4 weeks, it isnt feasible or fair but that is part of the problem
verse MJ and her 20years everyone will lose unless they are given the same amount of time and todays fans wont allow it.

I'd add Aaron Cash from the Batman Arkham games. Interesting point:he's a character Dan Slott created for Arkham Asylum: Living Hell. Leslie Thompkins, Harvey Bullock, Renee Montoya (who's gone on to become a legacy character for the Question). The fact is Gordon, Alfred, and Lucius Fox are as famous and iconic as any superhero and Batman's supporting cast is still deeper than many Marvel or DC characters. And in any case, the best Batman stories have always excelled at creating these amazing civilian characters. Look at Batman the Animated Series which had the Gray Ghost, Charlie Collins, among others.

I thought we were talking just Comics because most of the time Batman seems to me to be very isolated from the civilians, granted Marvel seem to have a small support cast while DC have reasonable size support cast but we more than likely know more about Harry Osborn that we do about Harvey Bullock for example.

In the case of Marvel, having one, i.e. Spider-Man/MJ is better than none, and certainly more variety than every other marriage in their pages showing endogamy.

Well this comes down to my first thing what defines a hero i mean is Sharon Carter a hero or civilian for example, but for me I don't think stories should have quotas it should be about the quality of the story without question.

To a degree. This is the same Nick Spencer that received death threads for "turning Captain America into a nazi", after all.
Said fanbases need to let a story be told in full and then swear bloody justice

I would say yes let the story be told if you don't like it fine but try not to swear bloody justice you can end up giving fans a bad name especially if you go as far as death threats

You'll get used to the selective information

Why do i get the feeling that I will even if I don't want to, wait i know its called my sanity

Obviously to a degree. Death threats are absolutely and unequivocally wrong.

Hopefully everyone can agree to that.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Stan Lee also said that if he knew Spider-Man would be so successfully then he wouldnt have had Peter graduate High School so quickly so marriage would never have come up or come up much later.

Sounds like words someone fed into Lee's mouth which is fairly easy to do. When left to himself Stan Lee always believed and practiced and encouraged progression. The reality was that the sales of Spider-Man increased and became much bigger after he left high school and went to college. The Romita Sr. era sold far better than the early Ditko era, and even in the case of Ditko, the college stories sold better than before. The marriage era stories sold better than the Defalco and Stern eras before it.

Financially, a grown-up Spider-Man always did do far better than a teenage Spider-Man. The first cartoon with a teenage Spider-Man was Greg Weisman's Spectacular Spider-Man, before everything from 1967 to 2002 had Peter in college. In the case of an exclusively high school Peter Parker, Marvel tried doing that many times in the '90s, with Untold Tales of Spider-Man, and then John Byrne's Chapter One, and only finally managed something successful and lasting with Bendis' USM. Bendis' USM succeeded because of the writer, because of the nature of the relaunch and the hook that ultimate marvel wouldn't refuse to redesign and alter familiar classic villains to a new context...so it wasn't tied to Peter being a teenager either in that situation.

Well I'm neutral about the marriage but IMHO don't know about the professional bit he killed Gwen off because he thought that it was wish fulfillment on Stan's party and that Gwen was too perfect for him but MJ wasn't so opinions vary.

It wasn't Conway's decision or call to kill Gwen. He didn't sign on wanting to kill her off. John Romita Sr. wanted to kill off a character. He was basically Spider-Man's story editor at that point (Marvel hadn't yet locked down specific line-editors as a gig-unto-itself then so Romita Sr. unofficially worked as that). He made the call, and all Conway did was point out that Gwen Stacy made the best sense to work that in to which Romita Sr. agreed.

Conway has said that if there had been no plans to kill off, he would most likely just broken Peter and Gwen up, and then have Peter date MJ.

I love (really hate) that this is the case because Gwen, Liz, Betty, Felicia are in that period too but the point i'm making here was that the vocal pro marriage fans who says that the only way that the "real" spider-man can develop is with MJ as his wife because she is her soulmate and no one can come close but she had over 20 years to earn that good will now new characters have to do what Mary Jane did in 4 weeks, it isnt feasible or fair but that is part of the problem
verse MJ and her 20years everyone will lose unless they are given the same amount of time and todays fans wont allow it.

Well, dem's the breaks. I mean will any supporting character coming in to Batman measure up to Jim Gordon? Or in Superman's case, Lois Lane?

It's not unfair to expect that a long-time supporting cast member and love interest will always have a bigger claim than any new character coming in. That's how it works.