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  1. #91
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    The idea that a giant yellow space cockroach was responsible for Hal's bad behavior. I mean, seriously, that's the best you could come up with?
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  2. #92
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    The idea that a giant yellow space cockroach was responsible for Hal's bad behavior. I mean, seriously, that's the best you could come up with?
    It still made more sense than the original reason, IMO.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    The idea that a giant yellow space cockroach was responsible for Hal's bad behavior. I mean, seriously, that's the best you could come up with?
    It was executed very well.

  4. #94
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    Worst book? Maybe Batman: Earth One, but this is going to play into my next point about his ideas. I don't think Johns has ever really done a straight-up bad-bad story. It's more that sometimes his output is more disappointing and maybe formulaic for his work. In general, if he's doing the writing himself, at bare minimum you can expect solid, workman-quality level of storytelling, even if it's subpar for most of Geoff Johns work. Batman: Earth One is that to me. I think his general ideas for differentiation for his story just don't really excite me and kind of come off as prosaic to me. But this *is* Geoff Johns, so it's not bad. It's just really disappointing compared to what the premise of "Geoff Johns writing his own Batman origin" story should be.

    When it comes to ideas, I tend to think that some of Geoff Johns's ideas are ones that honestly only really get fully exploited by him, and are actually bad when other people try and use them. For instance, a bunch of his Teen Titans ideas were only good in his hands, and the reliance he placed on them meant that when he left, other writers were left trying to write just his ideas and it didn't really work. Cassie as Zeus's daughter never really went anywhere good, Bart as Kid Flash just kind of missed the point of the character, and while other guys have managed to make the Conner Luthor reveal work, the generally "de-saturated " characterization for Conner and most of the other characters kind of deadened them going forward.
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    It still made more sense than the original reason, IMO.


    All due respect - I know what it's like to lose a favorite character to bad writing - but doubling down on the bad writing does not help things.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Worst book? Maybe Batman: Earth One, but this is going to play into my next point about his ideas. I don't think Johns has ever really done a straight-up bad-bad story. It's more that sometimes his output is more disappointing and maybe formulaic for his work. In general, if he's doing the writing himself, at bare minimum you can expect solid, workman-quality level of storytelling, even if it's subpar for most of Geoff Johns work. Batman: Earth One is that to me. I think his general ideas for differentiation for his story just don't really excite me and kind of come off as prosaic to me. But this *is* Geoff Johns, so it's not bad. It's just really disappointing compared to what the premise of "Geoff Johns writing his own Batman origin" story should be.

    When it comes to ideas, I tend to think that some of Geoff Johns's ideas are ones that honestly only really get fully exploited by him, and are actually bad when other people try and use them. For instance, a bunch of his Teen Titans ideas were only good in his hands, and the reliance he placed on them meant that when he left, other writers were left trying to write just his ideas and it didn't really work. Cassie as Zeus's daughter never really went anywhere good, Bart as Kid Flash just kind of missed the point of the character, and while other guys have managed to make the Conner Luthor reveal work, the generally "de-saturated " characterization for Conner and most of the other characters kind of deadened them going forward.
    This one wasn't on Johns.
    It was mandated by Didio, over everybody INCLUDING Geoff telling him it was a bad idea.
    I thought Geoff Johns made a purse from a cow's ear with this one.
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  7. #97
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    All of them, ever

  8. #98
    Incredible Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Flash Rebirth and his Barry Allen run on Flash. It destroyed the Flash family right there.
    Johns had planned a Flash Family book (or backup feature? I can't remember) that would have kept Wally and Bart prominently in the mix but this was squashed by Didio who was adamant that Barry be the only Flash especially heading into The New 52.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post


    All due respect - I know what it's like to lose a favorite character to bad writing - but doubling down on the bad writing does not help things.
    If it retcons away a ridiculous personality shift for a player of Hal's tenure, I'll take it in a heartbeat. I would also say it for any other player turned into a bad guy overnight, unless the character was specifically created that way like Terra.
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  10. #100
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    Johns may be my favorite writer, but when he botches something, it really has a lasting impact.

    Sign me up for giving Barry Allen, loveable everyman nerd inspired by comic book superheroes to use his powers for good, a terrible tragic origin that has followed the character in every form of media since, betraying the concept of the Flash not needing tragedy to be a hero established in his own Wally run.

    I was excited to see Barry back, too.

  11. #101
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    On Halís turn, I think both external and internal forces played a role. I like that best. He was clearly conjuring human emotions of loss and guilt before going on the rampage, but boy was it violent.

  12. #102
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    A couple of people here brought up his Superman run but I want to bring up a specific example. I absolutely hated what he did to Toyman. Revealing the Toymen after Winslow Schott were robots created by him was garbage. The Japanese Toyman from Loeb run on Superman/Batman is a fun character and not even a villain. Johns retcon completely killed the potential of that character.

    I hated how he killed Captain Boomerang son in Blackest Night. Owen Mercer was far more interesting character and had bigger potential. He was a speedster, related to Bart Allen, had complex relationship with Tim Drake and great on the Outsiders. Killing him to bring his dad back was a colossal waste.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducklord View Post
    Full disclosure: I'm a former member of HEAT, so I'm a self-identified fan with major entitlement issues

    I can understand the annoyance of a Kyle Rayner fan feeling that Hal just stepped back in and tromped all over a character that had (eventually, tortuously) established himself as a pretty sweet character in the DCU.

    But I think the additions of the Yellow Lanterns Corps and (to a lesser degree) the other Corps were darned brilliant expansions. And yes, they often didn't make a lick of sense (Emotions first started on Earth? Will is in emotion? Why is empathy so gol-durn weird? Why are there no males in the violet corps? etc.), but there was a whole lot of absolute comic book coolness for those first few years after GL: Rebirth.

    I think the difference between GL: Rebirth and Flash: Rebirth is that the former felt like an inevitable make-good on a bad idea (Hal going nuts for no good reason and destroying the Corps), while the latter felt a lot like a present that no one asked for ("Barry's back? Um, gee, I guess that's okay. But he had a pretty good death, and his protege is doing a good job carrying on his name... what's that, you promise Wally won't get get shafted by this? Okay, based on how you've handled the GL franchise we're gonna trust you on this one, just please don't screw it up...")

    In hindsight, it's hard not to argue that Kyle eventually got pushed into a ditch by the return of Hal (although I'd argue that Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz represented the final nails in his emerald coffin). But at least in the vastness of the GL mythology there's theoretically room for Kyle to shine.
    I completely agree- having different color lanterns with different powers was inspired - and sales picked up after that, so clearly it was an idea that excited a lot of people.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    A couple of people here brought up his Superman run but I want to bring up a specific example. I absolutely hated what he did to Toyman. Revealing the Toymen after Winslow Schott were robots created by him was garbage. The Japanese Toyman from Loeb run on Superman/Batman is a fun character and not even a villain. Johns retcon completely killed the potential of that character.
    Did that effect Hiro at all? I didn't think it did.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by geomon View Post
    New 52 version of Captain Marvel. Everything about that character is trash.
    Sounds like the viewpoint of a jaded grownup. My 8 year old son LOVES the new 52 version of SHAZAM. He loves the extended, adopted, Marvel family, enjoyed the movie, and has been interested in the recent alternative "worlds" being explored by the family right now in the comic book. The old SHAZAM was cheesy and so boring, it could never retain sales. This new version is my son's favorite comic book at the moment, so if that is the market they are trying for, they are succeeding. Not every DC comic has to be written for men 35 and older Ö..

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