Geoff Johns' worst book or idea

[chamber-music]

I would probably say Geoff John's worst book/idea was when he was at Marvel.

John's infamous Avengers Vol.3 issue 71 from 2003.

Where to start with that crazy issue!

The weird sex scene between Hank Pym and Wasp.

Supervillain Whirlwind having prostitutes dress up as Wasp before murdering her (which is one hell of a escalation for the villains wasp infatuation).

Later in the issue he tries to rape an unconscious Wasp, makes a crack about wanting her honey and gets chased by a giant naked Hank Pym.

The entire issue was really weird. Felt like something from the Ultimate comics rather than the Avengers.

[Elmo]

Killing off the Earth 2 Superman. Far and away. There was absolutely no reason to bring him back if they were just going to do that. He got his happy ending and they wouldn't let him keep it. There was just no excuse for that. They should have just left him alone instead of turning him into a villain and literally dragging his corpse around the DCU afterward. I still haven't forgiven Johns for that.

I'm part of the camp with the headcanon that believes that was not the E2 Superman from Pre Crisis

[Elmo]

Felt like something from the Ultimate comics rather than the Avengers.

that was definitely the intention. they all spoke in lowercase so I don't consider it canon

[exile001]

I could go on all day, but I feel he is at his worst when he thinks he is adding to a classic work.

Infinite Crisis, for all the editorial mandates, was still an extremely poorly written comic book. His Kingdom Come pre-sequel-tie-in thing was utterly appalling. Darkseid War (for the Anti-Monitor AND 4th World) was shocking. Doomsday Clock is just plain bad.

Oh, and a special shout out to his Action Comics run. I've never had everything I love drained from a character/comic franchise in such a short space of time.

I'd liken this to how Barry fans felt on reading The Flash: Rebirth. I didn't realise for a while that Wally was going to be limbo-ed.

[Pinsir]

Not continuing his Aquaman run

[Hilden B. Lade]

Can we add his idea of an Englishman's accent in Doomsday Clock #9 as an honorable mention?

At least that was an out-of-continuity thing and not like with Jason where several issues were spent on Wonder Woman's secret brother who nobody really cared about...

A dangling plot thread he introduced that he couldn't even be bothered take care of himself

Three Jokers is also a very suspect idea, but to Johns' credit, at least he'll be exploring that one himself, instead of letting some other poor writer handle it.

[DevilBat66]

Full disclosure: I'm a former member of HEAT, so I'm a self-identified fan with major entitlement issues

I can understand the annoyance of a Kyle Rayner fan feeling that Hal just stepped back in and tromped all over a character that had (eventually, tortuously) established himself as a pretty sweet character in the DCU.

But I think the additions of the Yellow Lanterns Corps and (to a lesser degree) the other Corps were darned brilliant expansions. And yes, they often didn't make a lick of sense (Emotions first started on Earth? Will is in emotion? Why is empathy so gol-durn weird? Why are there no males in the violet corps? etc.), but there was a whole lot of absolute comic book coolness for those first few years after GL: Rebirth.

I think the difference between GL: Rebirth and Flash: Rebirth is that the former felt like an inevitable make-good on a bad idea (Hal going nuts for no good reason and destroying the Corps), while the latter felt a lot like a present that no one asked for ("Barry's back? Um, gee, I guess that's okay. But he had a pretty good death, and his protege is doing a good job carrying on his name... what's that, you promise Wally won't get get shafted by this? Okay, based on how you've handled the GL franchise we're gonna trust you on this one, just please don't screw it up...")

In hindsight, it's hard not to argue that Kyle eventually got pushed into a ditch by the return of Hal (although I'd argue that Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz represented the final nails in his emerald coffin). But at least in the vastness of the GL mythology there's theoretically room for Kyle to shine.

Hi Ducklord,

Full Disclosure: I'm a former member of HEAT too. I went by "Gladiator X" back then. I was the big Kyle fan in the group at the end.

No need to get into the Kyle stuff again. I'd agree with your statement about Simon and Jessica though.

I would agree with your take on the differences between the Flash and GL rebirths as well.

No. I don't think the emotional spectrum added anything to the mythos. If anything it was as damaging as having the constant "new" GL's has. "Green Lantern" is just a title. It doesn't mean anything anymore. A "Power Ring" is nothing special when there are literally thousands and thousands of them of every color in the Skittles bag.
I understand why some folks think it's cool but I thought I think it's dumb and has de-uniqued the concept of the power ring just like having multiple people running around calling themselves "Green Lantern" has changed it from a unique superhero name into a generic title. ( feel the same way about all the Flashes and Spider-Men and all the other books doing the same thing too )
It hasn't helped that since then, the GL books seem to be about nothing other than power rings and the other corps out in space.


Yeah, I prefer the kind of book it was when Kyle was the last GL. Even Hal's early days were still mostly on Earth with a plethora of different kinds of villains. Since rebirth, it might as well be a Power Rangers book and I don't like Power Rangers.

[SelinaK12]

his worst ideas:
-New 52 Shazam Origin
-Making courtney marry albert rothstein
-flashpoint
-making billy leave the JSA instead of telling them the truth
-taking away the marvel family powers and making them look like fools everytime they fought the black adam family
-killing damage
-killing courtney brother in new 52

[HandofPrometheus]

Taking away Cyborg's personality and friendships by shoving him on a team that still does him no good.

[king81992]

Taking away Cyborg's personality and friendships by shoving him on a team that still does him no good.

Cyborg on the JL was wasted opportunity and mishandled. They could have at least had a story arc where he left the Titans and got promoted, but DC just put him on the JL and ignore his past.The only good thing about Cyborg being on the JL is that he's not getting killed off, character assassinated or turned into a lackey of the Batman who Laughs.

[HandofPrometheus]

Cyborg on the JL was wasted opportunity and mishandled. They could have at least had a story arc where he left the Titans and got promoted, but DC just put him on the JL and ignore his past.The only good thing about Cyborg being on the JL is that he's not getting killed off, character assassinated or turned into a lackey of the Batman who Laughs.

That's true lmao.

[John Venus]

Flash: Rebirth

Superman: Secret Origin

Teen Titans

Turning Sam Lane into General Ross during the New Krypton saga and continued that in Secret Origins.

What he did to Boomerang Jr. during Blackest Night.

His overall handling of Wonder Woman.

His Nu 52 Justice League run.

[blunt_eastwood]

I think the whole New 52 was an awful idea, as well as the Rebirth initiative, which seems to be amounting to nothing.

What was the point in doing a pseudo-reset if you're just going to reintroduce the missing elements a few years later?

[superduperman]

I'm part of the camp with the headcanon that believes that was not the E2 Superman from Pre Crisis

There's something of an argument that the Earth 2 Superman wasn't the "real" GA Superman anyway. Given the fact that they dropped the Daily Star after only about a year, there's some truth to that.

[EsotericFailures]

his worst ideas:
-New 52 Shazam Origin

This is one of his best, arguably top 5. Great reinvention of the character, made him more popular and relevant than he had been for years and laid the foundations for one of DC's best movies.