Worst Era of Fantastic Four

[ArthurCurry]

I've been reading Fantastic Four in order from Stan and Jack's #1 and it's definitely had its ups and downs.

I'm now on vol 3 around issue #17 of the Claremont era and I have to say this is by far the most confusing and lackluster group of issues I've read to date. Worse than the meandering 70s, worse than the She-Thing years, worse than Onslaught Saga, worse than Heroes Reborn.

I've read Waid and Hickman's runs, all the way through the current series and loved all of that, including even the Fraction stuff.

But as soon as I start a Claremont issue I'm checking to see how many pages I have left.

Does it get any better before Waid takes over? Hard to believe this is the guy responsible for Uncanny X-Men, but I can now appreciate John Byrne's co-plotting on that series even more.

Favorite runs so far:
1) Lee/Kirby
2) Hickman
3) John Byrne
4) Waid

[DevilBat66]

I really didn't like the Claremont run at all either.


Still not as bad as the She-Thing era though.

[Omega Alpha]

Remember that this Claremont was the same that came to the X-men afterwards and sucked, it's not 80's Claremont.

[gurkle]

I liked Claremont's run but I would not try to argue with anyone who doesn't. It is what it is, and what it is is Late Claremont: wordy, navel-gazing, and obsessed with revisiting or rehashing his old stories.

What makes me enjoy it is the Larroca/Thiebert art team, which does excellent work with no fill-in issues (a huge feat even then), and Claremont's characterization of Johnny as a mature, experienced superhero instead of wasting time with "will Johnny ever learn to grow up?" stories. So the art and the characterization make me like it but the stories and dialogue, I admit, are not great.

I haven't read a lot of recent FF apart from Waid and Hickman and Robinson, so I may be missing the very worst run, but the worst that I've read is probably Tom DeFalco/Paul Ryan. It's DeFalco imitating Stan Lee as usual, but combined with lots of really dated '90s stuff, so it's two kinds of dated at the same time.

[karatattoo]

For me, the best run on the Fantastic Four was Lee/Kirby (1-102 + 6 Annuals).

The John Byrne years during the early/mid 1980s are a close second.

[ArthurCurry]

I liked Claremont's run but I would not try to argue with anyone who doesn't. It is what it is, and what it is is Late Claremont: wordy, navel-gazing, and obsessed with revisiting or rehashing his old stories.

What makes me enjoy it is the Larroca/Thiebert art team, which does excellent work with no fill-in issues (a huge feat even then), and Claremont's characterization of Johnny as a mature, experienced superhero instead of wasting time with "will Johnny ever learn to grow up?" stories. So the art and the characterization make me like it but the stories and dialogue, I admit, are not great.

I haven't read a lot of recent FF apart from Waid and Hickman and Robinson, so I may be missing the very worst run, but the worst that I've read is probably Tom DeFalco/Paul Ryan. It's DeFalco imitating Stan Lee as usual, but combined with lots of really dated '90s stuff, so it's two kinds of dated at the same time.

Larocca art isn't bad, but I did enjoy the 3 issues we got of Alan Davis immediately preceding him.

Also I'm a fan of Paul Ryan's art for being consistent and more anatomically natural compared to his 90s compatriots.

[Uncanny Mutie]

The worst era of Fantastic Four? The CURRENT era, written by Dan Slott...

[Jokerz79]

Favorite runs

1: Lee and Kirby.
2: John Byrne.
3: Hickman.
4: DeFalco and Ryan.
5: Waid.

Worst yeah for me FF without Reed and Sue in the 80's with She-Thing.

[Elmo]

Fantastic Four is at its worst right now

[Iron Maiden]

I liked Claremont's run but I would not try to argue with anyone who doesn't. It is what it is, and what it is is Late Claremont: wordy, navel-gazing, and obsessed with revisiting or rehashing his old stories.

What makes me enjoy it is the Larroca/Thiebert art team, which does excellent work with no fill-in issues (a huge feat even then), and Claremont's characterization of Johnny as a mature, experienced superhero instead of wasting time with "will Johnny ever learn to grow up?" stories. So the art and the characterization make me like it but the stories and dialogue, I admit, are not great.

I haven't read a lot of recent FF apart from Waid and Hickman and Robinson, so I may be missing the very worst run, but the worst that I've read is probably Tom DeFalco/Paul Ryan. It's DeFalco imitating Stan Lee as usual, but combined with lots of really dated '90s stuff, so it's two kinds of dated at the same time.

I would agree with this. I think the Claremont run starts out rocky because of the sudden exit of Scott Lobdell when Claremont was the editor of the FF. I especially agree with you on how he is one of the few writers to write Johnny as a mature member of the team who could think for himself. And I admit I mostly liked it for the Reed/Doom team up against the Dreaming Celestial and the Reed in Doom Armor storyline. The Loeb/Marin/Pacheco run after that is pretty good and I liked how the upped the level of menace of Diablo, who is usually kind of a joke villian. But that final issue with Abaxas and the peculiar pregnancy of Sue ends things on a bad note IMO. But we did get some enjoyable alternate versions of the FF. This is where we see that Sue had become a doctor just like her father in one of these alternate realities.

Another run I didn't like was the Steve Englehart run. He continues his characterization of the scheming Crystal, which as I recall is a carryover from his Avengers. She enjoys Johnny being uncomfortable having her back after Ben selects her for his FF team when Sue and Reed take a leave of absence. At this point, Johnny and Alicia are newlyweds. Then he drags in his pet character Mantis for a couple of issues. Things get worse when he spends issue after issue with Aron the rogue Watcher observing the dreams of the Fantastic Four. The worst of these is when Crystal and Sue get into a cat fight.

Tom DeFalco's run is not as bad but it does have it's low points, like the I Married a Skrull from Outer Space solution to having Johnny become single again and remove the awkwardness of the Alicia/Johnny marriage.

So far, I am not impressed with Dan Slott. This recently concluded arc has a lot of problems, most of which deals with his use of Doom and Galactus.

[ChrisIII]

The post Bryne, Englehart era was pretty bad.

[Triniking1234]

Yeah the runs where Reed was absent bad. (On leave with his family and presumed dead in the 90s).

[Uncanny Mutie]

Fantastic Four is at its worst right now

Agreed. Been collecting for 30 years and this is the first time I have EVER dropped Fantastic Four from my pull list. And Slott's Iron Man is even worse, but this isn't about Iron Man, so...

[Snoop Dogg]

you gotta be trippin' to not say englehart, what a disaster

[ArthurCurry]

you gotta be trippin' to not say englehart, what a disaster

Not a fan of Fasaud?