Batman and the Outsiders #1

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I enjoyed the first issue overall. Though I don't think Hill has found Cassandra's voice just quite yet.

Soy's art was fantastic, and he really should get a bigger book. Maybe Detective, I don't think his kinetic style would fit with Kings slog on Batman.

I also believe the misprounced Ra's Al Ghul in this issue too.

I don't plan on picking it up further, was just getting the first issue.

[Captain Craig]

I'm behind on my reads. I came hoping to see discussion and there is ZERO, ZIP, NADA.....that seems to reflect poorly.
Unless there is one the General DC forum....going to check.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I tweeted Bryan Hill on the mispronouncing of Ra's, seems it may have been intentional.

[Korath]

Oh, I missed that one, somehow ! I'll copy/paste what I said in the appreciation thread then !

spoilers:

It's a good issue 1 for a team book. None of the characters truly felt mischaracterized or forgotten, even if you can feel that the pacing suffer a little bit from having both to present the first arc's objective, retreading the past events of the On the Outside arc of Detective Comics earlier last year and setting up the team itself. Other than that, I feel that Hill and Soy are doing a great job with the characters, by setting up two sets of "normal/meta" together -namely Duke and Cass for the young members and Black Lightning and Katana for the adults- which both have differences and similarities which should allow for an excellent dynamic if evolved properly. Perhaps my only true complaint here is that Hill doesn't seem to want to make use of The Signal's meta abilities, and that Cass may be a little too much in the background, but I feel that both can change relatively easily in the future. As for Batman, I think he's used really well here. He's obviously a part of it, but mostly outside -eh- of the Outsiders themselves. And since Hill doesn't shy away from his long shadow over the team -with two members of the Bat-Family there- I have the feeling that Batman won't crush the rest of the cast. The final twist is also insane, and can either go really well or really bad. I just hope that Caliber won't be wasted but developed really well in the future. I mean, Booster Gold is already DC's Cable -sort of- but this one could have potential.

end of spoilers

My pet theory right now is that :

spoilers:

Kaliber works for Leviathan. His design is very reminiscent of some of Quietus modified goons, and Quietus has been forced back into submission by Talia in The Silencer. What I suspect is that Ishmael is sent by Ra's because he needs to reassert himself and get more firepower and Sofia could provide it, while Leviathan sees her as an axcellent material for their goal, which is -as far as it was stated in The Silencer- to create a whole new society, purged from what Talia consider abhorrent. Kaliber's speech could definitively go in this direction.

end of spoilers

Finally, do you think that the team will be expanded ? I think four characters are a great start, and I want them to be developed well, but I can't help but hope we'll see at least one more character (possibly Sofia?) added to the team down the line.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Tony Isabella, the creator of Black Lightning, is tweeting up a storm saying how much he did NOT like the issue:

https://www.cbr.com/black-lightning-...the-outsiders/

"Don't try to put a silver lining on DC reducing Black Lightning to Batman's support negro." "It's insulting to the character, his fans and the creator with whom he wouldn't exist. For authentic Black Lightning, read Black Lightning: Cold Dead Hands and watch the brilliant TV show."

If you don't already understand why DC Comics reducing Black Lightning to Batman's support negro is insulting...if you give me the lame "that's the marketplace" response...you're never going to get it. We don't have anything to talk about.

In the first tweet, I'm sure Isabella meant "...without whom he wouldn't exist." Beyond that, is it really possible to tell what Black Lightning's prominence in the comic will be just from the first issue?

I only paged through the issue, but it seemed to me that Batman was basically saying that the Outsiders is BL's responsibility. That seems to make BL the leader of the team, not a "support" for Batman other than in the sense that Batman thinks everyone he's ever met in his entire life is there to support him.

For people who really read through the issue in detail, did Batman treat BL any differently than he's treated anyone else he's worked with?

Also, CBR, I believe Tony Isabella's preferred credit for Black Lightning's creation is "Created by Tony Isabella with Trevor Von Eeden," not "...and Trevor..."

[Korath]

Well, BL is the field leader, but they still take orders from Batman. However, Jeff is clearly not liking it in the first issue and don't hesitate to challenge old Bats. I believe that, in the future, he'll have cemented the whole team (with possible additions?) around him moreso than as fervent Bat-supporters.

[Aahz]

Isn't it like 36 years to late for that complain?

[skyvolt2000]

Isn't it like 36 years to late for that complain?

Not really.

Especially when a lot of times SOMEONE tried to do something with Black Lightning-outside forces screwed it up.

If not Tony's second BL series run. it was McDuffie's JLA run.

And now you have him on tv with a show and because stores and fans act like you can't have your own book as a POC-you have to be tossed in a book using Batman's name to get a story told.

I think his stance is you got somebody who has his own stuff (that you OWN) and could be your counter to Black Panther. Yet instead of putting in work-we go the easy way.

While it helps sales-it does not help sell BL as his own person. Which can make it harder to sell him.

[Konja7]

Not really.

Especially when a lot of times SOMEONE tried to do something with Black Lightning-outside forces screwed it up.

If not Tony's second BL series run. it was McDuffie's JLA run.

And now you have him on tv with a show and because stores and fans act like you can't have your own book as a POC-you have to be tossed in a book using Batman's name to get a story told.

I think his stance is you got somebody who has his own stuff (that you OWN) and could be your counter to Black Panther. Yet instead of putting in work-we go the easy way.

While it helps sales-it does not help sell BL as his own person. Which can make it harder to sell him.

I don't understand why people expect DC to sell something that will not get good sales.

Black Lightning has a mini when the TV started. At least, the sales for the stores where not good. I do not know how good (or important) his sales were in other forms, but taking into account that DC has decided Outsiders need Batman, I do not think they have been pretty good either.

DC still use Batman to promote Outsiders and Black Lightning. The other option DC would probably choose is just ignore Black Lightning.

[Aahz]

And now you have him on tv with a show and because stores and fans act like you can't have your own book as a POC-you have to be tossed in a book using Batman's name to get a story told.

I think his stance is you got somebody who has his own stuff (that you OWN) and could be your counter to Black Panther. Yet instead of putting in work-we go the easy way.

That doesn't have much to do with POC, almost nothing outside of DC Big Characters (and books that are somehow connected with them) sells.

And while Black Panther had an extremely successful movie, his comic also doesn't sell that great. His sales a currently in the low 20K region, so not much above the cancellation line.

And what I meant is that Black Lightning as a member of "Batman and the Outsiders" is nothing new, that was done the first time in the 80s and he is one of the most iconic members of the team. And I'm pretty sure that Batman will like back than, drop out of that team at some point and not get much panel time. That was handled similarly with the Rebirth JLA.

And in the end of the day the TV show will have anyway reach much more viewers and will have a longer lasting effect than any comic book.

[bretmaverick2]

I dont get Tony’s opposition either.

I have been a supporter of the character since his very first DC issue. I’ve followed a lot of twists and turns for the character including the (my opinion) grafting two needless daughters to the character long after the fact. He, as a character, doesn’t need daughters.

I would judge the book or Black Lightning’s use in the book too quickly. I’m gonna give it six issues before I decide.

[Korath]

Hill has been on a podcast presenting his vision for the book and all, it may be interesting : https://taylornetworkofpodcasts.com/...the-outsiders/

[protege]

Well, BL is the field leader, but they still take orders from Batman. However, Jeff is clearly not liking it in the first issue and don't hesitate to challenge old Bats. I believe that, in the future, he'll have cemented the whole team (with possible additions?) around him moreso than as fervent Bat-supporters.

Well, i’m Going to be reading it later today, so i’ll See how I feel, but I may not be sticking around to see what new members show up. Also, i’m Going to plead ignorance when I ask this; is tony isabella black? I saw some pictures of him and I wasn’t sure. And, why exactly was the premier of this book delayed again?

[Rac7d*]

Tony Isabella, the creator of Black Lightning, is tweeting up a storm saying how much he did NOT like the issue:

https://www.cbr.com/black-lightning-...the-outsiders/





In the first tweet, I'm sure Isabella meant "...without whom he wouldn't exist." Beyond that, is it really possible to tell what Black Lightning's prominence in the comic will be just from the first issue?

I only paged through the issue, but it seemed to me that Batman was basically saying that the Outsiders is BL's responsibility. That seems to make BL the leader of the team, not a "support" for Batman other than in the sense that Batman thinks everyone he's ever met in his entire life is there to support him.

For people who really read through the issue in detail, did Batman treat BL any differently than he's treated anyone else he's worked with?

Also, CBR, I believe Tony Isabella's preferred credit for Black Lightning's creation is "Created by Tony Isabella with Trevor Von Eeden," not "...and Trevor..."

She aint wrong
when i saw the team and noticed it was Batman in charge of a team of minorities it gave me a bad twinge

I know why they do it putting his name on it helps sales but its still problematic
and were usually just happy our favorites can have a book to call home rather then be locked in limbo

[protege]

Now that i have read it, i’m having some serious doubts about this team. I don’t like the way duke is being portrayed, like he’s lost his nerve. And, i’ve never really warmed up to orphan. I’m starting to wonder if batman needs to stop with the teenaged sidekicks and just go it alone. The more i read about batman, and his approach to things, the more it disturbs me.