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  1. #16
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    I agree that Arthur and Mera not getting married and not having a child are definitely missed opportunities from Johns. But I am still happy with the Aquaman mythos he created.

    I would also say that Abnett (for the most part) had a good run that followed Johns well.
    Abnett is partly responsible for the mess Aquaman is in now. He altered to much the characters to squeeze them so he could make the mera mini series.

  2. #17
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    Abnett is partly responsible for the mess Aquaman is in now. He altered to much the characters to squeeze them so he could make the mera mini series.
    In my opinion, his characters were mostly in line with how Johns wrote them. The only real exception is the heel turn of the Ocean Master in the Mera mini-series. Which destroyed the antihero direction the character was going in and destroyed one of the most interesting things to ever happen to the character (falling in love with a human and living with her and her son)
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  3. #18
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    In my opinion, his characters were mostly in line with how Johns wrote them. The only real exception is the heel turn of the Ocean Master in the Mera mini-series. Which destroyed the antihero direction the character was going in and destroyed one of the most interesting things to ever happen to the character (falling in love with a human and living with her and her son)
    not only, he made Mera care about Atlantis, when in all her history she hated them and viceversa. A xebellian, acceptable as queen of atlantis is a heresy. Mera in Johns never wanted to live in Atlantis and accepted only for the sake of Arthur.

  4. #19
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    not only, he made Mera care about Atlantis, when in all her history she hated them and viceversa. A xebellian, acceptable as queen of atlantis is a heresy. Mera in Johns never wanted to live in Atlantis and accepted only for the sake of Arthur.
    She changed her mind and wanted to do it for Arthur. Arthur was all for marrying a Xebellian and even giving up being King if it came to that, but Mera knew that doing that would be a bad idea and was willing to live in Atlantis for Arthur.
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  5. #20
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    She changed her mind and wanted to do it for Arthur. Arthur was all for marrying a Xebellian and even giving up being King if it came to that, but Mera knew that doing that would be a bad idea and was willing to live in Atlantis for Arthur.
    I am not referring to that, but to the fact that Abnett made/altered her go to become Queen of Atlantis, people she always despised. Its a heresy that she's acceptable as queen of Atlantis and that she wanted to be above else.

    Now the mess Abnett left is not easy to be fixed especially in the hands of the current writer.

  6. #21
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    I am not referring to that, but to the fact that Abnett made/altered her go to become Queen of Atlantis, people she always despised. Its a heresy that she's acceptable as queen of Atlantis and that she wanted to be above else.

    Now the mess Abnett left is not easy to be fixed especially in the hands of the current writer.
    To be fair, it is a change from how Johns wrote her. But it is a change that I am fine with and the rest of Abnett's Mera was in line with Johns'.

    She used to despise the Atlantians, but being with Arthur changed her and her point of view. As I said, she made a sacrifice for Arthur and I am fine with that.
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  7. #22
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    To be fair, it is a change from how Johns wrote her. But it is a change that I am fine with and the rest of Abnett's Mera was in line with Johns'.

    She used to despise the Atlantians, but being with Arthur changed her and her point of view. As I said, she made a sacrifice for Arthur and I am fine with that.
    she never changed her mind, with Abnett when Arthur was dethroned, she was the first to leave the place and happy to do leave.She couldn't even wait. He then altered/twisted her character to make the Mera mini series. Leaving a mess behind him. Mera was always her own person who took no dictates, the current Mera is a far cry from John's and from what she has ever been. Now she seems meekly accepting anything the widowhood throw at her. Even this widowhood plot was also something far from John's Aquaman.

  8. #23
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    she never changed her mind, with Abnett when Arthur was dethroned, she was the first to leave the place and happy to do leave.She couldn't even wait. He then altered/twisted her character to make the Mera mini series. Leaving a mess behind him. Mera was always her own person who took no dictates, the current Mera is a far cry from John's and from what she has ever been. Now she seems meekly accepting anything the widowhood throw at her. Even this widowhood plot was also something far from John's Aquaman.
    Well yeah, she left because Arthur was dethroned and so she did not need to stay in Atlantis for Arthur. People make compromises and sacrifices for the people they love and for Mera, that was following the Widowhood's instructions so she could Marry Arthur.

    I am fine with the direction Abnett took Mera in as I believe that changing her viewpoints and making sacrifices for Arthur is what Mera would do and it did not affect the character in a way that I disagree with. We might just have to agree to disagree as I doubt either of us will change put viewpoint on this topic.
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  9. #24
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    Well yeah, she left because Arthur was dethroned and so she did not need to stay in Atlantis for Arthur. People make compromises and sacrifices for the people they love and for Mera, that was following the Widowhood's instructions so she could Marry Arthur.

    I am fine with the direction Abnett took Mera in as I believe that changing her viewpoints and making sacrifices for Arthur is what Mera would do and it did not affect the character in a way that I disagree with. We might just have to agree to disagree as I doubt either of us will change put viewpoint on this topic.
    Its not the point of disagreeing, her character was altered. John's Mera was independent, headstrong and fiery as she always was, Abnett's Mera NO.
    Besides Abnett practically separated Mera from Arthur. John's never crossed his mind to separate them. Abnett's downturn in sales began with this separation. Aquaman is a book that its strongest point is the perfect combination of the two leads, Arthur and Mera. Once you separate them, the book losses appeal. John knew that, Parker as well. Abnett started well and messed it up.
    Mera is currently seeking a husband, is that for Arthur's love too? They can't be together, he cant go back to Atlantis and she is now Queen. this is the mess Abnett left.

  10. #25
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    Its not the point of disagreeing, her character was altered. John's Mera was independent, headstrong and fiery as she always was, Abnett's Mera NO.
    Besides Abnett practically separated Mera from Arthur. John's never crossed his mind to separate them. Abnett's downturn in sales began with this separation. Aquaman is a book that its strongest point is the perfect combination of the two leads, Arthur and Mera. Once you separate them, the book losses appeal. John knew that, Parker as well. Abnett started well and messed it up.
    Mera is currently seeking a husband, is that for Arthur's love too? They can't be together, he cant go back to Atlantis and she is now Queen. this is the mess Abnett left.
    Abnett's Mera was still independent, headstrong and fiery. When she broke Arthur out of a US prison was the perfect example of that. In the early arc's I think he balanced Arthur and Mera well. However, in the painfully long underworld arc, I agree.
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  11. #26
    Son of Satan DevilBat66's Avatar
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    I've liked a lot of his stuff, especially his Superman and the LSH and Secret Origin.

    My favorite work by him is Aquaman though. The best Aquaman has ever been to me since Jim Aparo drew him last.
    Batman - Detective Comics - Harley Quinn - Doomsday Clock - Batman Who Laughs - Batman: Damned - Batman: Last Knight On Earth - Silver Surfer: Black

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    His Wally West Flash run.
    His Green Lantern epic.
    His Aquaman run.
    His New 52 Shazam was great as is his current Shazam run.
    Controversial opinion time but his JL run was overall pretty great imo.
    I enjoyed his Batman Earth One books.
    And I mostly liked his Superman run except for SO.
    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    There's a lot of stuff I love but I really like Superman Secret Origin. It's nothing too amazing but I can read it anytime whenever and always enjoy it. It's what a basic modern Superman origin should be.
    Gotta totally disagree with you here. Of all of Supermanís origins Johnsí is by far the weakest.

  13. #28
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    Abnett's Mera was still independent, headstrong and fiery. When she broke Arthur out of a US prison was the perfect example of that. In the early arc's I think he balanced Arthur and Mera well. However, in the painfully long underworld arc, I agree.
    exactly my point, he was good in the early arc's, unfortunately, the mess he left, now leaves us with an awful run, one of the most boring aquaman's ops sorry he's now Andy...and a separation of the two that has lasted too long and seems destined to last. WHich ultimately is destroying what Geoff John built. Deconnick said she wanted to restore Aquaman's reputation, as if John's did not do that.

  14. #29
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    exactly my point, he was good in the early arc's, unfortunately, the mess he left, now leaves us with an awful run, one of the most boring aquaman's ops sorry he's now Andy...and a separation of the two that has lasted too long and seems destined to last. WHich ultimately is destroying what Geoff John built. Deconnick said she wanted to restore Aquaman's reputation, as if John's did not do that.
    We agree that his early work was good and his later work was bad. But ultimately, I don't think the way he handled Mera had anything to do with that.
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  15. #30
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    I loved his TT run, it got me into comics

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