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  1. #31
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    We agree that his early work was good and his later work was bad. But ultimately, I don't think the way he handled Mera had anything to do with that.
    In way it does, Aquaman's comic strongest point, is the duo Arthur and Mera. Johns was clever enough to make it one of the strongest points of his run. Parker too. Abnett's downturn started when he began playing with separating them. Sales confirm that. Just as they are confirming the disaster of Deconnick currently, with again Mera and Arthur not being together.

    Earlier in this thread you wrote
    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    I agree that Arthur and Mera not getting married and not having a child are definitely missed opportunities from Johns. But I am still happy with the Aquaman mythos he created.
    what you wrote applies to Abnett, even more because he separated them.

  2. #32
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    In way it does, Aquaman's comic strongest point, is the duo Arthur and Mera. Johns was clever enough to make it one of the strongest points of his run. Parker too. Abnett's downturn started when he began playing with separating them. Sales confirm that. Just as they are confirming the disaster of Deconnick currently, with again Mera and Arthur not being together.

    Earlier in this thread you wrote

    what you wrote applies to Abnett, even more because he separated them.
    Fair enough, that part was bad but the way he handled Mera's characterization in regards to Atlantis was fine.
    PLUS ULTRA!

  3. #33
    Incredible Member Adset's Avatar
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    A lot of people don't like his TT run, but I remember enjoying it at the time (I haven't gone back to re-read). It wouldn't place on my Geoff Johns Top 5, but I think it gets too much hate. I'm all for characters evolving over time, and I recall liking what he did with Bart, Kon, and Cassie.

  4. #34
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    The dislike of TT is primarily in regards to it ignoring or tossing away a lot of the good stuff about Young Justice. Taken on its own, if you ignore YJ, it's a perfectly good TT run. It's just characters like Bart and Conner had their personalities overhauled for it.

  5. #35
    Incredible Member Adset's Avatar
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    I think that's where I diverge from (what seems to be) the consensus on his TT run. I was a big YJ fan, as well as a fan of both the Impulse and Superboy monthlies in the 90s. I had a longstanding affinity for both characters going into Johns' TT, I just didn't take what Johns did as an "overhaul", or a failure to grasp the character (not your words -- just something I've seen thrown around here before). I just thought it was simple character growth/maturity, especially in the case of Bart. I think it worked for me so well because these characters were all so young, so going from the irresponsible goofball we saw in Impulse or PAD's YJ to a smarter, more mature character in TT seemed... natural?

  6. #36
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    You can be smarter and more mature without losing the thing that makes him Bart, though. He didn't even have his internal monologues out loud anymore which was a shame.

    And Conner was obviously a way bigger overhaul. Much more dour and such with the giant backstory change. But that's the character to a lot of people, especially now after the YJ TV show, ironically.

  7. #37
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    I agree that he made Aquaman a character to be taken seriously, his run is the best ever. However I never agreed that he cancelled the fact that Mera and Arthur had a child. It was not needed, just as it was not needed that they never had been married. Unfortunately his Aquaman run was short and with exception of Parker, those that followed have ruined much of his work. Aquaman currently is awful.
    The "no marriages" edict came from Didio. You'll notice that Johns had Arthur propose to Mera as soon as the shackles came off when Didio let him do Rebirth.

    As for Mera & Arthur's murdered son, that's probably for the best. That dead baby sent both characters in a much, much darker direction than was beneficial for them for decades. It's difficult for either of them to be used in any kind of light-hearted, fun stories when they've got the weight of a murdered child hanging over them forever.

    Do you really think the Jason Mamoa movies would have the same crowd-pleasing goofy vibe if they threw a murdered infant in the mix? Swapping out a murdered son for a murdered father was a very smart play on Johns's part. It's strange how much of a difference killing a baby versus killing an adult has on audiences, but it absolutely does.

    Even with all the continuity reshuffling going on right now, I don't expect Mera & Arthur's dead son will be coming back any time soon, although it might get referenced as an example of the darkness that infected the DCU.

  8. #38
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    There's a lot of stuff I love but I really like Superman Secret Origin. It's nothing too amazing but I can read it anytime whenever and always enjoy it. It's what a basic modern Superman origin should be.
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who enjoys Secret Origin .

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Hawkman or One Year Later Teen Titans.

  10. #40
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who enjoys Secret Origin .
    Hell yeah. It's not my favorite book but I've probably reread that thing more than most books that I love. It just feels so good to read. I might like Birthright (minus the vegan and seeing people's life force stuff) more but when I think Superman's origin I think Secret origin.
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  11. #41
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    His Aquaman was excellent - Making Mera front & centre was a masterstroke.
    His first run on the Flash was bloody brilliant - Wonderland, Blood will Run, Crossfire, Blitz and finally Rogue War.
    Green Lantern Rebirth and subsequent issues were a genius way to absolve Hal Jordan PLUS expand the mythos with the emotional spectrum.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
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  12. #42
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    The "no marriages" edict came from Didio. You'll notice that Johns had Arthur propose to Mera as soon as the shackles came off when Didio let him do Rebirth.

    As for Mera & Arthur's murdered son, that's probably for the best. That dead baby sent both characters in a much, much darker direction than was beneficial for them for decades. It's difficult for either of them to be used in any kind of light-hearted, fun stories when they've got the weight of a murdered child hanging over them forever.

    Do you really think the Jason Mamoa movies would have the same crowd-pleasing goofy vibe if they threw a murdered infant in the mix? Swapping out a murdered son for a murdered father was a very smart play on Johns's part. It's strange how much of a difference killing a baby versus killing an adult has on audiences, but it absolutely does.

    Even with all the continuity reshuffling going on right now, I don't expect Mera & Arthur's dead son will be coming back any time soon, although it might get referenced as an example of the darkness that infected the DCU.
    Lets not blame Didio for everthing, Mera and Arthur had been married under him, it was John's, one of his few mistakes in Aquaman to change that. Although it was hardly noticeable. They acted as a married couple. It was rebirth that brought up the issue. Without the proposal few would have noticed that they weren't really married.

    As for the dead son, one of the lowest points in comics killing a baby, I agree that it was good to forget it. But an Arthur Curry Jnr alive would have added new interesting paths.

    As for the movie, OFF COURSE, audiences would have not liked a murdered baby. However the movie is different from the comic version. In first place Mera sought Arthur's help, not to kill him as in the comic version. Since they aren't married in the movie and hardly know each other, there could be no path for a murdered Aquababy by Manta.

    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    His Aquaman was excellent - Making Mera front & centre was a masterstroke.
    Totally Agree, that was one of the issues that made his Aquaman great. Once other writers started playing with idea of separating them/altering characters, the book started to lose readers and is in the mess it is currently.

  13. #43
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    As for the movie, OF COURSE, audiences would have not liked a murdered baby. However the movie is different from the comic version. In first place Mera sought Arthur's help, not to kill him as in the comic version. Since they aren't married in the movie and hardly know each other, there could be no path for a murdered Aquababy by Manta.
    I think it was a missed opportunity to drop the Xebel is the Australia of Atlantis idea so quickly in the movies. I mean, their king is Drago for cryin' out loud and they just treated Xebel like another kingdom.

    That was a good idea of Johns's that I would have liked to see explored more.

  14. #44
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think it was a missed opportunity to drop the Xebel is the Australia of Atlantis idea so quickly in the movies. I mean, their king is Drago for cryin' out loud and they just treated Xebel like another kingdom.

    That was a good idea of Johns's that I would have liked to see explored more.
    yes indeed, but a movie lasts 2hrs trying to explain xebel as a convict kingdom and what it involves, in already complicated plot would have made things confused to audiences.
    On the hand the approach of the movie is a new version which did not displease me that much.

  15. #45
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think it was a missed opportunity to drop the Xebel is the Australia of Atlantis idea so quickly in the movies. I mean, their king is Drago for cryin' out loud and they just treated Xebel like another kingdom.

    That was a good idea of Johns's that I would have liked to see explored more.
    Does 'Australia of Atlantis' mean BLOODY BRILLIANT PLACE TO LIVE????
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