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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    So without OMD, there would have been a time-jump. And then another time-jump. And then the book would get cancelled?
    Not exactly, as evident by what DC is doing with Jon, you can age a kid up without compromising timelines. It's a typical cliche in superhero fiction.

    And how would you know ASM would have been cancelled if they'd done that? It's the mainline book, thus giving people a reason to give a damn, which is what alternate timeline books often fail to do

  2. #167
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    looks like someone is getting fed up with OMD and the retconed Peter/mj marriage being brought up ad infinitum.

  3. #168
    BANNED WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    looks like someone is getting fed up with OMD and the retconed Peter/mj marriage being brought up ad infinitum.
    While I'm in a (similar) boat: he's a mod and has the power to shut down any future conversations about OMD and Peter and MJ. Why not close this thread, you know?

    As for everyone bringing it up, it gets exhausting having go battle the Spider-Fanbase ten times a month about this, but it's on Marvel just as much as it is on the fans for digging it up.

  4. #169
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    well, it’s driven a lot of posters away but it keeps the board busy, even if it is largely a continuous rehashing
    troo fan or death

  5. #170
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    ....And how would you know ASM would have been cancelled if they'd done that? It's the mainline book, thus giving people a reason to give a damn, which is what alternate timeline books often fail to do
    I don't buy such flawed logic either. Amazing has survived debacles like the 1990s' Clone Saga just fine.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  6. #171
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Well it ruined Spider-Man for me, for the most part. And it stole my lunch money.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  7. #172
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Honestly, by your responses, I feel like you're not even trying to understand his point of view, and it comes across as incredibly dismissive.
    I'm responding to the argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Not exactly, as evident by what DC is doing with Jon, you can age a kid up without compromising timelines. It's a typical cliche in superhero fiction.

    And how would you know ASM would have been cancelled if they'd done that? It's the mainline book, thus giving people a reason to give a damn, which is what alternate timeline books often fail to do
    Superman's a bit of a special situation since the DC Universe gets rebooted a lot. Navigating a time jump and the shared universe will be difficult, moreso in the Marvel Universe where most of the characters are in the same state.

    I don't know that ASM would be cancelled if Peter and MJ had a family, but Renew Your Vows isn't a great template for a new direction since it didn't last very long. People caring more about mainline books isn't an argument on the merits, and it is worth noting that plenty of mainline books aren't what they used to be (Just look at the X-Men) so we can't assume Amazing Spider-Man would be immune.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    While I'm in a (similar) boat: he's a mod and has the power to shut down any future conversations about OMD and Peter and MJ. Why not close this thread, you know?

    As for everyone bringing it up, it gets exhausting having go battle the Spider-Fanbase ten times a month about this, but it's on Marvel just as much as it is on the fans for digging it up.
    I can voice my disagreement with someone, but also believe the person should be able to respond.

    You never answered my earlier questions, which I asked after you suggested I was being too flippant, and that something would be too big of a change. Why should I react differently? And what exactly is too big of a change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I don't buy such flawed logic either. Amazing has survived debacles like the 1990s' Clone Saga just fine.
    The Clone Saga got reversed.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  8. #173
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    ...The Clone Saga got reversed.
    If so why are Kaine and Ben still around? Sure Ben being "the real one" might have been changed but the saga as a whole still happened.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  9. #174
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    If so why are Kaine and Ben still around? Sure Ben being "the real one" might have been changed but the saga as a whole still happened.
    Fair enough, but the main restrictions of the Clone Saga were reversed. Aunt May came back from the dead. Peter Parker was revealed as the real Spider-Man after all. The pregnancy came to a sad end, and was barely referenced.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  10. #175
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Fair enough, but the main restrictions of the Clone Saga were reversed. Aunt May came back from the dead. Peter Parker was revealed as the real Spider-Man after all. The pregnancy came to a sad end, and was barely referenced.
    I'd say the first was a mistake and perhaps the last I have no such reservations about Peter being the real Spider-Man, however, as anything less would have been an insult to long-term fans. Like with OMD, IMO, it would have equally undone decades of character development a type of retcon which should always be avoided whenever possible.
    Last edited by Celgress; 05-15-2019 at 07:00 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  11. #176
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I'd say the first was a mistake and perhaps the last I have no such reservations about Peter being the real Spider-Man, however, as anything less would have been an insult to long-term fans. Like with OMD, IMO, it would have equally undone decades of character development a type of retcon which should always be avoided whenever possible.
    hrmmm still not sure worrying about fan reaction is the best approach to creativity
    troo fan or death

  12. #177
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    I was semi reading up until Slott and his pet SpOck came along and ruined it for me.
    Thankfully Nick Spencer has so far not disappointed me in the least, though i am REALLY hoping he goes the extra mile and restores the natural order of things and do away with OMD. Wishful thinking perhaps but i have to believe that it has to end.

  13. #178
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    well, it’s driven a lot of posters away but it keeps the board busy, even if it is largely a continuous rehashing
    It's a rehash, all right. I mean, is there anything new to say about it? And yet, here we are, still picking away at the scab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I don't know that ASM would be cancelled if Peter and MJ had a family, but Renew Your Vows isn't a great template for a new direction since it didn't last very long. People caring more about mainline books isn't an argument on the merits, and it is worth noting that plenty of mainline books aren't what they used to be (Just look at the X-Men) so we can't assume Amazing Spider-Man would be immune.
    Not sure how we can know for sure that the template was what was wrong and that it wasn't other factors (like specific execution, maybe), if that makes any sense. It feels a bit like arguing that reimagining the original comics run wouldn't work because Chapter One failed, which doesn't make sense since Ultimate took that idea and made an incredibly successful run out of the premise (one that's still influencing stuff today).
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Fair enough, but the main restrictions of the Clone Saga were reversed. Aunt May came back from the dead. Peter Parker was revealed as the real Spider-Man after all. The pregnancy came to a sad end, and was barely referenced.
    Marvel compensated by launching MC2 though, where Aunt May's death in 400 remained canon, in place of Ben there was Kaine in a prominent role, and MJ's pregnancy was a success, and that book went on to be the longest running female Spider book for years with no real relaunch until 2006. So while 616 was content to take steps backwards, Marvel still pushed forward with consequences of the Clone Saga in a positive way that pleased fans.

  15. #180
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Marvel compensated by launching MC2 though, where Aunt May's death in 400 remained canon, in place of Ben there was Kaine in a prominent role, and MJ's pregnancy was a success, and that book went on to be the longest running female Spider book for years with no real relaunch until 2006. So while 616 was content to take steps backwards, Marvel still pushed forward with consequences of the Clone Saga in a positive way that pleased fans.
    that’s fair enough

    and depending on how much you like the “spider-family” characters, the saga had at least some impact in that regard.
    troo fan or death

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