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  1. #151
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    i’m not sure how necessary OMD was, i don’t have the data that (i hope) marvel was using to motivate the choice they made. i understand their rationale, i’m not entirely convinced by it, but i get it
    While I get it too, I just wish they thought it through more and actually realized that there were quite a few people invested in the pairing (because of good storytelling only a few years prior)
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  2. #152
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    While I get it too, I just wish they thought it through more and actually realized that there were quite a few people invested in the pairing (because of good storytelling only a few years prior)
    yeah, i think any audience realising they’re no longer the target market after years of investment would feel the same. not me personally, but i get that it’s not an illogical reaction. the...depth of that reaction is what i find harder to wrap my head around

    i think the story is pretty indefensible. ideally (and coming from a film perspective) i’d have wanted something that seismic to have been workshopped for years, drafted, redrafted, market tested and fully baked. put some damn effort in
    Last edited by boots; 05-13-2019 at 08:48 PM.
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  3. #153
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    yeah, i think any audience realising they’re no longer the target market after years of investment would feel the same. not me personally, but i get that it’s not an illogical reaction. the...depth of that reaction is what i find harder to wrap my head around

    i think the story is pretty indefensible. ideally (and coming from a film perspective) i’d have wanted something that seismic to have been workshopped for years, drafted, redrafted, market tested and fully baked. put some damn effort in
    I feel a bit left out, but not betrayed personally. I think it was ill-advised, ill-prepared, and dumb overall, but I still read the series. I can understand that others may not want to, and that's their right, but I don't understand the mentality of just "get over it" when Marvel doesn't. If they don't, fans shouldn't be expected to either. It doesn't excuse bad fan behavior like threats or extreme scrutiny, but it puts a certain light over the franchise that otherwise could've been avoided in so many better ways (like, I don't know, not publishing the story :P)

    I think that about sums up the conversation, right?
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  4. #154
    Take Me Higher The Negative Zone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Or a wake up call to a company if it's consensus.
    Don't think that's ever going to happen. Most people can agree that a story sucks, but not many are going to swear off the character forever. How many iconic comic book characters were driven through the mud at some point and people today still read them?

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    Don't think that's ever going to happen. Most people can agree that a story sucks, but not many are going to swear off the character forever. How many iconic comic book characters were driven through the mud at some point and people today still read them?
    To some extent there have been actual consequences to OMD. While sales have generally been good and stable, the per-reader count of ASM has generally fallen and dropped since OMD. (https://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/12...an-statistics/). Best-selling Spider-Man issues since OMD have been milestone issues, or gimmick issues and so on. Superior Spider-Man sold well initially but sales dropped off near the end. And in any cases, sales Post-OMD are a mug's game, one we don't have digital sales (which might be more, might be less), second it's a fact that a good chunk of these sales is driven by Mephisto-baiting and teases about undoing OMD. I know anecdotally that a good number of people who read Spider-Man in that time read it thinking that OMD would be undone and so on. It's not like Marvel didn't make references to the event or Mephisto in that entire time and still sold well. Or that MJ was totally gone and still did well. That didn't really happen. There's the fact that RYV outsold the main titles in two different months, which is a pretty rare occurence for an AU comic. The last time that happened was when Bendis worked on USM and started out in the tail-end of the Mackie/Byrne era and early JMS era.

    There's also the fact that in the case of Spider-Man is concerned, 616 Continuity has possibly not been very influential in the last 18 years or so. Every Spider-Man movie and TV show draws influence from Bendis' USM. Jon Watts also cites Sean McKeever's Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane. The major new character in Spider-Man since Venom and Carnage is Miles Morales and he originated in Ultimate Marvel not 616. Spider-Verse has become a significant sub-franchise and that franchise essentially legitimizes and keeps in place every AU version of Peter Parker inside 616. What was envisioned as a one-off event has become here to stay. So 616 itself feeds off alternate versions of Spider-Man. The ITSV movie likewise drew almost the entirety of its ideas and story details from Bendis' comics and basically just took the title from the original event. The one exception is the PS4 game where Slott's Big Time and original story with Mr. Negative from BND has had an impact, while the DLC borrows a lot from Gerry Conway's Spiral.

    OMD hasn't sunk Spider-Man but it has left behind a permanent stain and a lingering stink that hasn't gone away.

  6. #156
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    Didn’t read OMD and don’t care to, with that being said there are stories I have enjoyed since then despite it happening. I enjoyed: Spider-Island, Spider-Verse, and without OMD we never would have gotten Renew Your Vows which I very much enjoyed.
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    Don't think that's ever going to happen
    I'd say the reactions and attempts at compensation from Marvel over the last few years have shown there has been a wake up call of sorts. Mephisto apperances in the Spider satellite books, articles and recommendations for the marriage on the official Marvel site, callbacks, Renew Your Vows being a thing, Life Story being yet another continuity with the Spider-Marriage to MJ etc. There's been something for everyone, where as there was a big drought in the early years of the Alonzo regime where all you could find of Peter and MJ together was the daily strip, itself a niche thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    and without OMD we never would have gotten Renew Your Vows which I very much enjoyed.
    If it weren't for OMD, RYV could have still happened in 616 after a couple of years.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 05-14-2019 at 02:19 AM.

  8. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Unless that's explained, then no, it's not part of their background. It's way too big of a change. Why are you being so flippant about this?
    Why should I react differently?

    And what exactly is too big of a change?

  9. #159
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    If it weren't for OMD, RYV could have still happened in 616 after a couple of years.
    RYV was never going to be mainstream continuity.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Some people feel like the breakup of MJ and Pete's marriage caused them not to read Spider-Man after that but was there anyone that enjoyed and still enjoys despite One More Day? Anyone that actually like One More Day?
    How much do I hate OMD/BND? As a Spider-Man and Yankee fan, OMD/BND falls somewhere between losing to the Boston Red Sox in 2004 up 3-0 and losing last year's playoffs to Boston. Even OMD/BND is not as bad as 2004, but for 2019, I am waiting to see whose you know what gets kicked first: Mephisto or Boston. If it is Boston then OMD/BND is worse, if it is Mephisto then it is 2018 to Boston. God willing, both Mephisto and Boston get theirs.

  11. #161
    Take Me Higher The Negative Zone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    I'd say the reactions and attempts at compensation from Marvel over the last few years have shown there has been a wake up call of sorts. Mephisto apperances in the Spider satellite books, articles and recommendations for the marriage on the official Marvel site, callbacks, Renew Your Vows being a thing, Life Story being yet another continuity with the Spider-Marriage to MJ etc. There's been something for everyone, where as there was a big drought in the early years of the Alonzo regime where all you could find of Peter and MJ together was the daily strip, itself a niche thing.
    IMO it seems like they let the bad stink of OMD just sit for years and nobody had any real priority to actually do anything about it. MJ and Peter were always going to be reunited though, and I'm also sure they'll eventually be split up again too.

  12. #162
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    Didn’t read OMD and don’t care to, with that being said there are stories I have enjoyed since then despite it happening. I enjoyed: Spider-Island, Spider-Verse, and without OMD we never would have gotten Renew Your Vows which I very much enjoyed.
    Fair that. I myself actually started reading older ASM collections in part because of that series. Not sure I'm happy that it had to exist in the first place, if that makes any sense, but as long as we're here, I'll take it and be happy.
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  13. #163
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    If it weren't for OMD, RYV could have still happened in 616 after a couple of years.
    it's possible, but there would probably have been less motivation to create an alt universe based soley on the idea that peter and mj have a kid when the mainstream featured them married. the idea of having a child isn't necessarily a big crowd puller.

    from memory, i think dan said he created ryv specifically as an alternative for marriage fans?
    Last edited by boots; 05-14-2019 at 06:01 PM.
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  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    I'd say the reactions and attempts at compensation from Marvel over the last few years have shown there has been a wake up call of sorts. Mephisto apperances in the Spider satellite books, articles and recommendations for the marriage on the official Marvel site, callbacks, Renew Your Vows being a thing, Life Story being yet another continuity with the Spider-Marriage to MJ etc. There's been something for everyone, where as there was a big drought in the early years of the Alonzo regime where all you could find of Peter and MJ together was the daily strip, itself a niche thing.



    If it weren't for OMD, RYV could have still happened in 616 after a couple of years.
    So without OMD, there would have been a time-jump. And then another time-jump. And then the book would get cancelled?

  15. #165
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    So without OMD, there would have been a time-jump. And then another time-jump. And then the book would get cancelled?
    Honestly, by your responses, I feel like you're not even trying to understand his point of view, and it comes across as incredibly dismissive.
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