Did anyone enjoy Spider-Man in spite of One More Day?

[Lee]

unable to make decisions, hold a job or a woman, and constantly disrespected.

This is pretty much the foundation of the series.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

And again saying he is not a responsible person because he's not married to MJ proves my point.

What about any of Peter's actions in OMD qualifies as being responsible by any sane definition of that word?

Why is she needed for any of that when he is more that capable if allowed.

Because Mary Jane happens to be the only person Peter's ever had real compatibility with?

And if he was all that you say he's currently not then I suspect that there would be something else wrong with his portrayal because he's no longer married.

There was among other things an extended year-long run, i.e. Superior Spider-Man, where Peter wasn't there.

[The tall man]

What about any of Peter's actions in OMD qualifies as being responsible by any sane definition of that word?



Because Mary Jane happens to be the only person Peter's ever had real compatibility with?



There was among other things an extended year-long run, i.e. Superior Spider-Man, where Peter wasn't there.

His actions was what he thought best, saying its not responsible because the end result is he's no longer with MJ is personal bias. This desire to kill May so MJ can have Peter all to herself is disturbing. This is the woman who raised him along with Ben, instilled values and set his moral compass to make him one of the most compassionate and virtuous person around. Yet because he chooses to sacrifice his happiness to save her he is seen as irresponsible and wrong. All because MJ is no longer his wife. I comedown on the side of it being a courageous choice, he was not willing to let May die when the option was there to save her. MJ and the marriage be dammed.

What does being compatible with someone have to do with being responsible and an adult? As I said Peter can be all that and more if the writers choose to portray him that way. And it does a huge disservice to his character that they don't do it. It lessens him to say that he is a frat boy without MJ but as soon as she comes along he grows up. How would MJ fans react if she was seen as a immature flake who needed Peter to bcome a responsible capable adult, they would see it as insulting. Peter is fine with or without MJ and in truth can be fine with any non-MJ relationship also if allowed. It's only that some Fans are diehard MJ fanatics who want her to be the center of Peter's world and want no competition for his affections, not even aunt May it seems.

Wheather MJ is around or not Spiderman will continue on, she is not a deal breaker. Sure some may drop the book but it will go on.

[theoneandonly]

lol you are stirring a hornets nest by calling out mjs place in the spider mythos. mj fans will be like out for your blood.

[NC_Yankee]

His actions was what he thought best, saying its not responsible because the end result is he's no longer with MJ is personal bias. This desire to kill May so MJ can have Peter all to herself is disturbing. This is the woman who raised him along with Ben, instilled values and set his moral compass to make him one of the most compassionate and virtuous person around. Yet because he chooses to sacrifice his happiness to save her he is seen as irresponsible and wrong. All because MJ is no longer his wife. I comedown on the side of it being a courageous choice, he was not willing to let May die when the option was there to save her. MJ and the marriage be dammed.

What does being compatible with someone have to do with being responsible and an adult? As I said Peter can be all that and more if the writers choose to portray him that way. And it does a huge disservice to his character that they don't do it. It lessens him to say that he is a frat boy without MJ but as soon as she comes along he grows up. How would MJ fans react if she was seen as a immature flake who needed Peter to bcome a responsible capable adult, they would see it as insulting. Peter is fine with or without MJ and in truth can be fine with any non-MJ relationship also if allowed. It's only that some Fans are diehard MJ fanatics who want her to be the center of Peter's world and want no competition for his affections, not even aunt May it seems.

Wheather MJ is around or not Spiderman will continue on, she is not a deal breaker. Sure some may drop the book but it will go on.

I cannot believe you said that. Keep in mind Aunt May did not raise Peter alone as a single parent, Uncle Ben was there as well. She knows very well that she will not live forever and she wanted Pete to have a good woman in his life and that was MJ. Aunt May should not be a plot device to keep Pete immature ( see Life Story). Even Gwen ( under Slott of all people) knew that in the end, Pete is choosing MJ over her. Why? Look at ASM 122 who did Pete to?NOT Aunt May. Plus, look at early MJ and see how Gwen, Liz etc were intimidated by her. MK has "It" pure plain and simple.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

His actions was what he thought best, saying its not responsible because the end result is he's no longer with MJ is personal bias.

"For starters, it should be self-evident that having your flagship superhero, your exemplar of heroic values and morality, the guy whose book gave us the phrase “with great power comes great responsiblity,” the most popular fictional character in the world whose name isn’t Harry Potter, literally make a deal with the devil is just a terrible, terrible idea on the face of it. That he does so to scrap the romance at the center of his multi-billion-dollar, zeitgeist-bestriding film trilogy should probably have sent up a few red flags too...The final, fatal, unforgivable flaw, of course, is that it doesn’t even work from a standpoint of emotional realism. Simply put, if you ask any happily married couple to trade away their entire marriage, past present and future, to save the life of a septuagenarian mother figure, no matter how beloved, who probably is just a few years from dying anyway, the answer would be no."
— Sean T. Collins

This desire to kill May so MJ can have Peter all to herself is disturbing.

Uhh...your sentence is quite weird here. You should clear that. It's not MJ who has that desire if that's what you are implying, it's not fans who have that desire. Most fans rather liked the Aunt May in JMS' run and nobody wanted her death until Quesada's screwy plot insisted that happen. What people object to is Aunt May being used not as a character but as a plot device to infantilize Peter Parker. When Aunt May is a character (as in AF#15 to ASM#400 and in JMS' own run), she's awesome. In the periods between and after those two, she's just a plot device mandated by editorial.

This is the woman who raised him along with Ben, instilled values and set his moral compass to make him one of the most compassionate and virtuous person around. Yet because he chooses to sacrifice his happiness to save her he is seen as irresponsible and wrong.

Yeah he is. No parent ever raises their kid to trade their futures to take care of them. No normal good parent that is. Aunt May always wanted Peter to settle down and get married. Doing all he can to save her from death is believable and acceptable.

As I said Peter can be all that and more if the writers choose to portray him that way. And it does a huge disservice to his character that they don't do it.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say. If we are comparing the Spider-Man of the JMS era and the one in the BND era, the former is a much richer, deeper, and more mature character. The most mature thing Spider-Man has done since OMD in the new continuity is in Spencer's first issue where he mans up and realizes that everything that happened to him was deserved because at the end of the day, he did plagiarize Ock's work.

It's only that some Fans are diehard MJ fanatics who want her to be the center of Peter's world and want no competition for his affections, not even aunt May it seems.

Not to be all tu quoque about this. But you are the one who's coming of as a real fanatic here. You don't respond to any earlier arguments and views. Like I pointed out that the list from CBR you mentioned about MJ not being important is false since 15 of the 25 stories there both feature her and are set during the marriage. You haven't responded to that. You also make accusations that fans want Aunt May to die or MJ fans hate May when that's not true at all and not even discussed. You also ignore the monumental place in Spider-Man's mythos that Mary Jane has, based on appearances, longevity and sustained popularity and simply act as if any other character can have that. Well you can't.

[The tall man]

"For starters, it should be self-evident that having your flagship superhero, your exemplar of heroic values and morality, the guy whose book gave us the phrase “with great power comes great responsiblity,” the most popular fictional character in the world whose name isn’t Harry Potter, literally make a deal with the devil is just a terrible, terrible idea on the face of it. That he does so to scrap the romance at the center of his multi-billion-dollar, zeitgeist-bestriding film trilogy should probably have sent up a few red flags too...The final, fatal, unforgivable flaw, of course, is that it doesn’t even work from a standpoint of emotional realism. Simply put, if you ask any happily married couple to trade away their entire marriage, past present and future, to save the life of a septuagenarian mother figure, no matter how beloved, who probably is just a few years from dying anyway, the answer would be no."
— Sean T. Collins



Uhh...your sentence is quite weird here. You should clear that. It's not MJ who has that desire if that's what you are implying, it's not fans who have that desire. Most fans rather liked the Aunt May in JMS' run and nobody wanted her death until Quesada's screwy plot insisted that happen. What people object to is Aunt May being used not as a character but as a plot device to infantilize Peter Parker. When Aunt May is a character (as in AF#15 to ASM#400 and in JMS' own run), she's awesome. In the periods between and after those two, she's just a plot device mandated by editorial.



Yeah he is. No parent ever raises their kid to trade their futures to take care of them. No normal good parent that is. Aunt May always wanted Peter to settle down and get married. Doing all he can to save her from death is believable and acceptable.



I honestly don't know what you're trying to say. If we are comparing the Spider-Man of the JMS era and the one in the BND era, the former is a much richer, deeper, and more mature character. The most mature thing Spider-Man has done since OMD in the new continuity is in Spencer's first issue where he mans up and realizes that everything that happened to him was deserved because at the end of the day, he did plagiarize Ock's work.



Not to be all tu quoque about this. But you are the one who's coming of as a real fanatic here. You don't respond to any earlier arguments and views. Like I pointed out that the list from CBR you mentioned about MJ not being important is false since 15 of the 25 stories there both feature her and are set during the marriage. You haven't responded to that. You also make accusations that fans want Aunt May to die or MJ fans hate May when that's not true at all and not even discussed. You also ignore the monumental place in Spider-Man's mythos that Mary Jane has, based on appearances, longevity and sustained popularity and simply act as if any other character can have that. Well you can't.

Everything else is ancillary; the marriage, the deal even Aunt May. I don't care if Peter is with MJ or not. My main point of contention is that Peter is seen as not responsible or as childish without her. It should not be that way, what other character is portrayed like that? Why can't he be a responsible adult regardless of MJ's presence? That's what i take issue with, making Peter so reliant on MJ; it makes him one dimension. Is it required that every character/person be in a serious relationship or married to be considered responsible or a functional adult or is that exclusive to Peter? How about a mature Peter with or without MJ, or is that asking to much.

[WebSlingWonder]

Everything else is ancillary; the marriage, the deal even Aunt May. I don't care if Peter is with MJ or not. My main point of contention is that Peter is seen as not responsible or as childish without her. It should not be that way, what other character is portrayed like that? Why can't he be a responsible adult regardless of MJ's presence? That's what i take issue with, making Peter so reliant on MJ; it makes him one dimension. Is it required that every character/person be in a serious relationship or married to be considered responsible or a functional adult or is that exclusive to Peter? How about a mature Peter with or without MJ, or is that asking to much.

I mean, you're getting that now, no? Despite Peter and MJ being a couple, Peter is being written as a mature adult who accepts responsibility and displays virtue. And that's with MJ but he's also doing his own thing without her sometimes. So...que es el problema?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

My main point of contention is that Peter is seen as not responsible or as childish without her.

The argument and justification for OMD and removing the marriage was keeping Spider-Man young and stupid. The manifesto put out by publishing editor Tom Brevoort in the BND trade paperback said "Spider-Man is about youth" and it keeps going on about that. The people behind the OMD retcon and behind BND and the entire run of Dan Slott after that, deliberately made Peter after BND immature, childish, and idiotic. More than he had been in the years before that. The creators behind BND deliberately made Peter without MJ immature and irresponsible and childish without her. I mean read Dan Slott's Power Play three-parter, a story where Iron Man comes off as the good guy and ends with you wanting to punch Peter in the face.

It should not be that way,

There's the stories, the words put out by editors and writers. Deal with that. This isn't something that fans are making up.

Why can't he be a responsible adult regardless of MJ's presence?

About the only responsible thing Peter can actually do after MJ is essentially go celibate and swear off relationships. That's the adult thing he should have done.

Is it required that every character/person be in a serious relationship or married to be considered responsible or a functional adult or is that exclusive to Peter?

As a character, Peter Parker is someone who grows, who develops, and who changes. Ten years have passed for legit in his titles. And a sign of that growth is in his relationships with women. Peter is someone who is closer to women than men in his life. That's a consistent pattern in all his stories since the beginning. So in the case of Peter as a character, being in a serious relationship is needed for him to be a functional adult and so on.

How about a mature Peter with or without MJ, or is that asking to much.

If Peter sat down and thought Post OMD-OMIT, "Mary Jane put up with my double life and my secrets more than any other person I know and more than anyone could have asked. If it was too much for her, then it would be too much for anyone. Well that's it. No more relationships for me. I'm going to focus on making my own life work before I could think of asking anyone to be a part of mine".

What Peter actually did, "Wow, Harry is alive and he's rich so I get to go to all deez clubs, and tongue-tango with any number of eager young willing things. I found this nerd chick who some days looks like Deb Whitman, other days like MJ, other days as someone else entirely...and I'm gonna lie to her about my double life, because schmuck that I am, I actually am going to take MJ at face value when she said she wasn't strong enough and force my life on to some other unwilling dupe because that worked out so well with Betty and Gwen, the girls I dated before Felicia and MJ made me decide to try that open honest crap."

Then later, "Dr. Ock hijacked my life and left me his ill-gotten gains and completed my degree in my name but using his original work. I didn't earn this. This company isn't mine, I'll just sell it to someone who can do it better and who won't fire anyone hired and get my name cleared of this Ock crap."

Instead, "I'm rich. Goddamnit I'm rich. But wait I'm supposed to be poor. So I'll just give myself a token salary and pretend to be one of those regular joe billionaires, while I send dozens of dollars on Spider-Man gadgets and get into deals with totalitarian nations like China, while also skiving off work whenever I get the chance to get into fights with Tony Stark and others, while also convincing Mr. Aunt May to invest savings in my startup...all built on a plagiarized degree that I accepted passively because the consequences of that won't ever come back to bite me...he he he."

Post-OMD Peter is a tool. Plain and simple.

[WebSlingWonder]

^^ As much as Revolutionary_Jack is a little too passionate, he's not entirely far off. I don't hate OMD like most here, but God dang his characterization since then was terrible. It's like he de-aged, mentally and physically (he was also depowered from the Other abilities, which made me mad). Like, WTH? And that was all without MJ, you know?

[Celgress]

^^ As much as Revolutionary_Jack is a little too passionate, he's not entirely far off. I don't hate OMD like most here, but God dang his characterization since then was terrible. It's like he de-aged, mentally and physically (he was also depowered from the Other abilities, which made me mad). Like, WTH? And that was all without MJ, you know?

I think given the mandate at the time that the entire point of OMD was to regress Peter, and by extension, his world and supporting cast, to a much earlier state which necessitated the rolling back of years worth of development. Thank the Comic Book Gods under our boy Spencer things seem to have recently changed.

[WebSlingWonder]

I think given the mandate at the time that the entire point of OMD was to regress Peter, and by extension, his world and supporting cast, to a much earlier state which necessitated the rolling back of years worth of development. Thank the Comic Book Gods under our boy Spencer things seem to have recently changed.

Yeah, it was a reboot through and through. They finally did it after trying so hard to reboot the character for years. I guess I'm still a little salty as to why they would do this, but it's comics unfortunately.

But you're right: Spencer (and Zdarsky in SPEC) seem to want Peter to be, you know, Spider-MAN

[NC_Yankee]

Yeah, it was a reboot through and through. They finally did it after trying so hard to reboot the character for years. I guess I'm still a little salty as to why they would do this, but it's comics unfortunately.

But you're right: Spencer (and Zdarsky in SPEC) seem to want Peter to be, you know, Spider-MAN

There are many reasons to reboot Pete to adulthood. But here are three major ones.1: There is no need for a teenage Spider-Man in comics. Why? Miles..2: The venom that fans had for OMD and the man-child Pete finally resonated at Marvel. 3: A different writter and of course interpretation of how Peter and his suporting cast should or should not operate.

[WebSlingWonder]

There are many reasons to reboot Pete to adulthood. But here are three major ones.1: There is no need for a teenage Spider-Man in comics. Why? Miles..2: The venom that fans had for OMD and the man-child Pete finally resonated at Marvel. 3: A different writter and of course interpretation of how Peter and his suporting cast should or should not operate.

I see what you're saying, and yes, I agree! The whole Spider-Man is a youth message falls flat with Miles' Introduction and popularity. So now, with Miles filling that spot, the creators are free to have Peter age and develop. One of the best things about having legacy heroes!

[Inversed]

I will say this at the very least, no matter what you're feelings on Peter's portrayal, I personally haven't had as much an issue of his interpretations as other posters as, but it is a straight up fact that Peter was essentially de-aged since OMD, since the editors and Slott himself have said they purposefully made/wrote Peter to feel younger than he did before because that's what they think work best for the character.