Did anyone enjoy Spider-Man in spite of One More Day?

[SuperiorIronman]

That's a toxic mindset, honestly. One story cannot and should not ruin a character. If that's the case, then every bad story with other characters would kill their popularity and appeal.

I did say that it wouldn't prevent me from picking up stories since. And it certainly didn't. I have enjoyed other Spider-man books and media since then.
But lets not kid ourselves, bad stories do kill franchises, where have you been that you have not seen this happen even in the Spider-man books? OMD effectively killed Spider-man for me because it not only fundamentally misrepresented the character and universe in which he lives, but talked down to the audience, and wasted time and money on what was them hitting the reboot button. Why should I give a damn about a franchise whose editorial office thinks we're idiots on the flippant idea of what Spider-man is to them?

I will still pick up a Spider-man comic, I will even enjoy a few of them, but that doesn't change the fact that this franchise is basically dead to me. It can't go anywhere because even if MJ and Peter get back together, the reboot button has precedent now. Someone will hit the button again and I just can't be so attached to a franchise that is so unsure of what it is. I will reiterate, I will pick up a book and maybe even enjoy it, but this franchise is what it is thanks to OMD.

[NC_Yankee]

That's a toxic mindset, honestly. One story cannot and should not ruin a character. If that's the case, then every bad story with other characters would kill their popularity and appeal.

I disagree. Clone Saga 1 did exactly that and almost bankrupted Marvel in the process. Why did that happen? Because Marvel played head games with their readers, and angered them. They are also very aware of how unpopular OMD/BMD is, and ( at least when Slott wrote the book) did not care what the audience felt. Now can a story be simply bad, and not ruin a character? Sure. Sins Past comes to mind. Gwen and to a lesser extent MJ looked bad but that arc did not ruin them. But OMD/BND and what happened ( regressing Pete into a man-child, having Mephisto win ( when even Dr. Doom won against him), and having Peter Parker look like a failure ruined the character for me. Those are a few reasons ( there are more ( starting with MJ and Felicia),.why I am almost as disgusted as the person who you said has a "toxic mindset," The only difference is I am giving Spencer a chance to make things better, and so far, so good.

[Mister Mets]

At that point you're just arguing semantics.

It makes it tougher to explain the situation in a sound-bite, so the muddied waters help avoid bad publicity.

While I agree with you on this point I think you are dead wrong when you say a single Spider-Man is necessary for the comic series to continue. Single, Married or any other status quo can work as long as the writer is creative enough. Hell, the aging the character argument is also wrong because of how long elderly, near death, Aunt May, has been around. In a realistic timeline, Aunt May would be long dead by now. Marvel could keep Annie, for example, young forever if they wanted to just like how they keep Aunt clinging to life and Peter around thirty (at max).

In a realistic (not necessarily real-time) timeline, Aunt May could be senile and bed-ridden, but that does show the drawbacks of realism.

The comics could have survived with the marriage, but it's better without it for the sake of the illusion of change.

That's a toxic mindset, honestly. One story cannot and should not ruin a character. If that's the case, then every bad story with other characters would kill their popularity and appeal.

I disagree here. But it really does depend on how bad a story is, and what it says about the characters.

A boring and generic Batman issue full of plot holes and poor storytelling is going to be a bad story, but it won't kill the character. But there are stories that will probably never get published that could taint the character forever.

[Snoop Dogg]

The reason you would get rid of the marriage is in case a future creator does not want to write the marriage like the writers who jumped through absurd hoops like cocaine-powered dolphins with jetpacks in order to get rid of the marriage (and failed)

[Snoop Dogg]

one bad story can kill a brand... for an individual...

[Miles To Go]

The reason you would get rid of the marriage is in case a future creator does not want to write the marriage

Then you don't hire that writer

[Snoop Dogg]

Then you don't hire that writer

if barack obama came to write at marvel and he offered up a fire spider-man pitch and when nick lowe uses the time stone he sees that in every reality it makes a million bajillion bucks BUT he wants mj as peter's friend is it wiser to hold onto the marriage or let obama break them up and then the following writer puts them back together

[NC_Yankee]

if barack obama came to write at marvel and he offered up a fire spider-man pitch and when nick lowe uses the time stone he sees that in every reality it makes a million bajillion bucks BUT he wants mj as peter's friend is it wiser to hold onto the marriage or let obama break them up and then the following writer puts them back together

Maybe not Obama but what about Charles Dickens? Dickens was hired by an American Newpaper to write a Christmas Carol. In the original story, Scrooge Dies. The newspaper said "Americans would not like this" and rejected it. Dickens had to change the ending where Scrooge lives. It took Dickens until the end of his life to admit the paper was right. Just because someone is famous and ( or) great.does not mean Everything they say or write is perfect. Marvel, should have realized how much readers would hate OMD and like the newspaper editor did to Dickens, say NO to Slott.

[Snoop Dogg]

#DickensWasRight

[shooshoomanjoe]

For me, spidey stories stopped being fun beginning with JMS.

[Miles To Go]

#DickensWasRight

He never got over being spooked by the Gelf

[Huntsman Spider]

Maybe not Obama but what about Charles Dickens? Dickens was hired by an American Newpaper to write a Christmas Carol. In the original story, Scrooge Dies. The newspaper said "Americans would not like this" and rejected it. Dickens had to change the ending where Scrooge lives. It took Dickens until the end of his life to admit the paper was right. Just because someone is famous and ( or) great.does not mean Everything they say or write is perfect. Marvel, should have realized how much readers would hate OMD and like the newspaper editor did to Dickens, say NO to Slott.

You mean "say NO to Quesada." Granted, that would have been hard with him being editor-in-chief at the time, but still . . .

[boots]

I enjoy reading positive things, with heroes I can admire, DC and Marvel are both, even now, still into deconstruction with a great deal of titles, so I don't follow them. Simple as that.

“deconstruction” doesn’t necessarily lead to positive or negative though

you could make the argument that spider-man was originally a form of superhero deconstruction

[Revolutionary_Jack]

One story cannot and should not ruin a character.

OMD is not just one story. It's an editorially driven mandate imposed by Quesada on to continuity that actively annuls 20 years of real-time stories, and its big gamble and claim to fame is that the ten years of BND and Slott is qualitatively better than the 20 years before it. I mean every editor and writer kept going in the wake "this feels like Spider-Man" which implicitly is saying that Spider-Man in the last 20 years wasn't real. To which I say f--k you. That kind of stunt is inherently going to polarize and divide your audience. And it's the kind of thing that will leave a stain of bitterness for a long time. And rightly so. The only way you can get away with it, is if it's a great story. I mean basically OMD-BND had to be one of the greatest Spider-Man stories of all time to even remotely pull off what it was trying to claim.

Historically whenever you had a great status-quo change in Spider-Man, you had an all-time masterpiece right out of the gate. Peter graduated high school and went to college in ASM #28, then we got the Master Planner story by Ditko in ASM #31-33. Peter and MJ got married, you had Kraven's Last Hunt. OMD and BND which is a status-quo reversal more than a status-quo change but either case it needed an all-time masterpiece that everyone could agree on. It did not produce a single story remotely as good as either the MP Saga or KLH, as such it lacks actual legitimacy as being necessary. Kraven's Last Hunt, as JMD pointed out, needed the marriage for its emotional texture, and it legitimized the Spider-Marriage the same way the Master Planner did the college era. Anyone who says that the Spider-Marriage isn't real Spider-Man which is what Quesada and others were claiming, has to say that KLH isn't real Spider-Man, that JMS' entire run isn't real Spider-Man, that the original Venom arc isn't real Spider-Man, that MacFarlane wasn't real Spider-Man, that Matt Fraction's "To Have and to Hold" isn't real Spider-Man. You can try and argue that these stories would have worked without the marriage, and say that till you're blue in the face, but the fact is these stories, several of them among the best selling Spider-Man comics of all time with sales figures far beyond the BND era, happened with the marriage and so properly belongs to them. If you want to claim it can happen without it, you have to prove your stories can produce quality, and they haven't done that.

That's why OMD can't be forgiven.

The reason you would get rid of the marriage is in case a future creator does not want to write the marriage like the writers who jumped through absurd hoops like cocaine-powered dolphins with jetpacks in order to get rid of the marriage (and failed)

if barack obama came to write at marvel and he offered up a fire spider-man pitch and when nick lowe uses the time stone he sees that in every reality it makes a million bajillion bucks BUT he wants mj as peter's friend is it wiser to hold onto the marriage or let obama break them up and then the following writer puts them back together

That cuts both ways. What about the Spider-Man creators who liked the marriage and would prefer to write the married Spider-Man and preferably the actual living Spider-Man continuity that Lee-Ditko-Romita-Conway-Wein-Wolfman-Stern-Defalco-Michelinie-JMS worked on as opposed to the fake manufactured one by Quesada and the BND writing team? What about potential Spider-Man creators who would want to write a married Spider-Man like say Ta-Nehisi Coates, Gail Simone, Matt Fraction among others? What about J. M. DeMatteis who loved a married Spider-Man and preferred it, as did many others like Tom Defalco.

And Nick Lowe by the way also seems to like a married Spider-Man. He cut his teeth working on RYV's second volume before becoming overall Spider-Man editor.

[WebSlingWonder]

OMD is not just one story. It's an editorially driven mandate imposed by Quesada on to continuity that actively annuls 20 years of real-time stories, and its big gamble and claim to fame is that the ten years of BND and Slott is qualitatively better than the 20 years before it. I mean every editor and writer kept going in the wake "this feels like Spider-Man" which implicitly is saying that Spider-Man in the last 20 years wasn't real. To which I say f--k you. That kind of stunt is inherently going to polarize and divide your audience. And it's the kind of thing that will leave a stain of bitterness for a long time. And rightly so. The only way you can get away with it, is if it's a great story. I mean basically OMD-BND had to be one of the greatest Spider-Man stories of all time to even remotely pull off what it was trying to claim.

Historically whenever you had a great status-quo change in Spider-Man, you had an all-time masterpiece right out of the gate. Peter graduated high school and went to college in ASM #28, then we got the Master Planner story by Ditko in ASM #31-33. Peter and MJ got married, you had Kraven's Last Hunt. OMD and BND which is a status-quo reversal more than a status-quo change but either case it needed an all-time masterpiece that everyone could agree on. It did not produce a single story remotely as good as either the MP Saga or KLH, as such it lacks actual legitimacy as being necessary. Kraven's Last Hunt, as JMD pointed out, needed the marriage for its emotional texture, and it legitimized the Spider-Marriage the same way the Master Planner did the college era. Anyone who says that the Spider-Marriage isn't real Spider-Man which is what Quesada and others were claiming, has to say that KLH isn't real Spider-Man, that JMS' entire run isn't real Spider-Man, that the original Venom arc isn't real Spider-Man, that MacFarlane wasn't real Spider-Man, that Matt Fraction's "To Have and to Hold" isn't real Spider-Man. You can try and argue that these stories would have worked without the marriage, and say that till you're blue in the face, but the fact is these stories, several of them among the best selling Spider-Man comics of all time with sales figures far beyond the BND era, happened with the marriage and so properly belongs to them. If you want to claim it can happen without it, you have to prove your stories can produce quality, and they haven't done that.

That's why OMD can't be forgiven.





That cuts both ways. What about the Spider-Man creators who liked the marriage and would prefer to write the married Spider-Man and preferably the actual living Spider-Man continuity that Lee-Ditko-Romita-Conway-Wein-Wolfman-Stern-Defalco-Michelinie-JMS worked on as opposed to the fake manufactured one by Quesada and the BND writing team? What about potential Spider-Man creators who would want to write a married Spider-Man like say Ta-Nehisi Coates, Gail Simone, Matt Fraction among others? What about J. M. DeMatteis who loved a married Spider-Man and preferred it, as did many others like Tom Defalco.

And Nick Lowe by the way also seems to like a married Spider-Man. He cut his teeth working on RYV's second volume before becoming overall Spider-Man editor.

Jesus. Tell us how you really feel.