Did anyone enjoy Spider-Man in spite of One More Day?

[boots]

I will say that OMD caused the fanbase to become horrible. You can't have Spider-man conversations anymore without people bringing it up and every appearance of Mary Jane, or for that matter, any female that shows any interest in Peter, is somehow twisted to prove a point where somebody is bound to rant for paragraphs on end about how the story is the worst thing that ever happened in human existence, how the people who wrote it hate marriage and support satanism, or how the comic itself somehow broke into the reader's home and molested their houseplants.

so that’s what happened to my peace lily

[boots]

The discussions on feedback are a bit muddied by the difference in writing for a finite work, and writing a serial with no end in sight.

With a traditional movie or novel, the main thing is to tell one story well.

A serial requires the character and world to stay intact for years to come.

“muddled” makes it sound like a confusing mess; really there are several working approaches. they vary from medium to medium or even company to company and on the writer’s own place of authority

illusion-of-change is only one

[WebLurker]

Kinda surprising that, in a medium where controversial changes are forgotten shortly thereafter, this one will not go away nor has it shown any signs of dying down.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I will say that OMD caused the fanbase to become horrible. You can't have Spider-man conversations anymore without people bringing it up and every appearance of Mary Jane, or for that matter, any female that shows any interest in Peter, is somehow twisted to prove a point where somebody is bound to rant for paragraphs on end about how the story is the worst thing that ever happened in human existence, how the people who wrote it hate marriage and support satanism, or how the comic itself somehow broke into the reader's home and molested their houseplants.

OMD as a story is altering and annulling 20 years worth of stories and is basically saying that they don't exist in the version that readers knew them as in the Post-OMD continuity. You don't do that and not face consequences. You don't support that and not face consequences. There would be controversy even if OMD was a great story, but being a great story was what it absolutely needed to be to justify or vindicate itself. It needed to be a masterpiece on the level of the MP Saga or KLH. That's the high bar for previous status-quo alterations. The fact that OMD is a terrible story must make defending it a painful and frustrating endeavor, to that extent I sympathize.

Fandom is about debating a work or franchise in all its stuff, including the unresolved and polarizing stuff. So the existence of complaints, and arguments and counter-arguments is not by itself toxic. In any fandom there's consensus. And there's stuff outside it. Like in Star Wars, everyone likes the OT but nobody agrees entirely about the prequels or the sequel films.

[boots]

Kinda surprising that, in a medium where controversial changes are forgotten shortly thereafter, this one will not go away nor has it shown any signs of dying down.

depends on how you measure that, i suppose

reading GoT reddit threads, you’d think viewers were abandoning ship in catastrophic numbers

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It's also probably possible to break characters in ways that can't be fixed. If DC were stupid enough to do a "Leaving Neverland" take on Batman & Robin, no retcon would fix the damage to the character's reputation. They're not going to be that dumb, but it's always possible that there will be a decision that is very unpopular in ways they don't anticipate (editorial may have blind spots), or something that hits a cultural fault line in a way that's difficult to reverse (if half the fans like it and see any reversal as an insult, and the other half demand immediate reversal.)

In the case of Batman, ASBAR and Zack Snyder's films took him in pretty controversial ways. And ASBAR certainly does flirt with "Leaving Neverland" and DC greenlit "the f--king Batgirl". But it didn't work because those are bad stories.

The quality of a story is ultimately important. Hank Pym is a good example. In the comics getting over him slapping Janet is hard to impossible. The primary reason for this is that Avengers #211-230 (a serial arc that really does need a name but doesn't have one right now, I propose "Hank Pym Vs." since the story is about Pym fighting everyone at some point, the Avengers, Janet, the Masters of Evil and above all himself) is actually a terrific superhero serial story. It's a compelling narrative and everything about Hank and Janet is true to character, pre-established canon and ultimately Hank falls into his lowest low and is brought to his highest high when he defeats the Masters of Evil all by himself, while admitting that his heroic turn doesn't once justify or forgive the bad stuff he earlier did. It's pretty mature, emotionally honest, and humane for a superhero story. It also makes it impossible to move past because that is the definitive Hank Pym story as central to him as the MP Saga is to Spider-Man. It's got EIC Jim Shooter and Roger Stern on the mike, so that lends it with a certain authority since Shooter is a pretty good writer, while Stern is a great writer and this actually marked the start of Stern's historic run on the Avengers which many still consider an all-time high. His signature character, Monica Rambeau, even audits Pym's second trial.

Whereas stuff like Peter slapping MJ during the Clone Saga, agreeing to partner with Jackal to destroy all humans and replacing them with clones and so on doesn't stick because those stories are terrible. The same reason why Batman will not be affected by ASBAR or Zack Snyder. Since the stories aren't good, it's hard for anyone to accept any of the changes and turns it makes as in-character.

[Miles To Go]

depends on how you measure that, i suppose

reading GoT reddit threads, you’d think viewers were abandoning ship in catastrophic numbers

GoT doesn't even have long to go.

[boots]

GoT doesn't even have long to go.

well yeah, it’s a specific case with its own particular nuances but my broader point is message boards and isolated pockets of fandom are hard to gauge

[Snoop Dogg]

will nick lowe hear my pitch on why spider-man has to become emperor of japan

[boots]

will nick lowe hear my pitch on why spider-man has to become emperor of japan

well, spider-man was originally conceived by stan lee to become a monarch, something stan wrote about in detail on his personal blog in 1921. stan, being half japanese himself originally named peter parker’s superhero identity “sovereign-man” but after running stan’s brief through google telegram (which was experiencing teething problems in the early 20th century), the marvel editors mistakenly read the man’s directions as “spider-man”. similarly, ditko misunderstood “put peter in a silk kimono” as “dress peter in red and blue tights with webs”, despite the fact stan was in the same room as him at the time and yelling very loudly

so the answer is yes.

[theoneandonly]

Emperor Doom objects.

[Zeitgeist]

GoT doesn't even have long to go.

There's spinoffs in the works apparently. Plus there's the actual source material still to be finished, which the show deviated from seasons ago. Once those books are written, there'll be a whole new TV series. It'll be Full Metal Alchemist all over again.
But I digress.

[boots]

There's spinoffs in the works apparently. Plus there's the actual source material still to be finished, which the show deviated from seasons ago. Once those books are written, there'll be a whole new TV series. It'll be Full Metal Alchemist all over again.
But I digress.

i’d happily watch a GRR do over of the last couple of seasons

[Zeitgeist]

i’d happily watch a GRR do over of the last couple of seasons

Game Of Thrones: Brotherhood

[WebLurker]

depends on how you measure that, i suppose

reading GoT reddit threads, you’d think viewers were abandoning ship in catastrophic numbers

Fair enough, all I have is anecdotal evidence, at best. But still, the fact that we're still talking about it years later in a medium where it seems like stuff like this blows over shortly after the eruption seems significant, even if I don't know what to do about it.