“True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice.”
~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
“If I love you, I have to make you conscious of what you don’t see.”
~James Baldwin
Truth. I'd also suggest for the truly great and durable ones, gain is usually less important to them than proving something to themselves, and to others. The easier it is for subsequent writers to get their heads around that need, the better they're likely to get used well.
The Red Skull, for example, is somebody that you can throw at anybody because he means To Rool De Vorld! But he has the most power when he's going after Captain America, not just because they have such long intertwined histories, but because The Skull is a fascist, and -though it's rarely said - he needs to prove that he is the superior one no matter how genetically optimized his platitude spouting adversary is.
Loki doesn't just want power and worship, he wants to prove he deserves a throne more than that hammer-slinging hippie half-brother of his.
The Leader and Modok need others to bow to their intellect to prove that their intellect truly is superior.
Magneto didn't become great until Claremont took him beyond simple megalomania and remade him as a former victim proving that his differences made him superior rather than inferior.
The Wrecker and The Absorbing Man have always needed to prove they were the toughest guys in the room.
Gorr didn't stay long but his impact on Thor is still felt years later.
Not necessarily. Far more often, the hero is the obstruction against the villain, who is the main agent of the superhero story. Perhaps the primary counterexample would be Batman, who as a character has very little going for him if his villains are removed.
Doom is probably the prime example of a Marvel villain with a developed personality and thematic depth. I think it's no coincidence that he (a) is an early Marvel character, (b) is the antagonist against a group which are more defined by their relations to each other than by their own individual personalities.
Really interesting idea. DC has been doing some moves in that direction with Poison Ivy, though she is in limbo as a character right now. But you run into the problem that any such depiction would require constant minor crossovers. But I really like it as a concept.
Last edited by kjn; 05-10-2019 at 02:29 PM.
«Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])
When it comes to Marvel villains, I feel like the ones who last are the ones who become almost family to the heroes.
The Fantastic Four certainly don't like Doom, but he is basically their 5th member.
Loki is Thor's brother and a lot of their conflict lies in the fact that one or both of them can't really kill the other under normal circumstances because, deep down, they love each other too much.
Magneto is the darkness that the X-Men risks becoming, but he's also a valued ally and he basically never goes away.
Norman Osborn is...um...well, he is as much a part of Peter's world as anyone else.
Now that I think about it, we actually do see that sort of thing happen, only not so much in the non-mutant world. With the X-Men anyone who considers Magneto, Emma Frost or Mystique an enemy is likely to cross swords with one of the more heroic X-characters. It all depends on who is going after Magneto/Emma/Mystique and when...and why. But I think we'd see more of this sort of thing in the non-mutant world.
“True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice.”
~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
“If I love you, I have to make you conscious of what you don’t see.”
~James Baldwin
“True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice.”
~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
“If I love you, I have to make you conscious of what you don’t see.”
~James Baldwin
I think we see of little of it in that of all the heroes out there, Doom has a sort of working relationship with Doctor Strange. The big push for that was in the GN Triumph and Torment and then much later Hickman has them working together during the final incursions in New Avengers. Than he becomes Doom's sheriff on Battleworld. But then when Reed inevitably shows up, Stephen immediate gravitates towards him and the other survivors of the raft. Victor kills him (or appears to since Strange is able to give the Key to Agamatto to Black Panther ) because he feels like he's been cast aside. Then later in Infamous Iron Man, Stephen is just about the only one that is willing to accept that Doom is sincere about taking a different path and he provides a bit of counseling and support. w
... not just casually murdering large groups of people in their successive appearances. (and still being handled with kid gloves)
There is not many reasons for Magneto to be in Thor, Hulk, or the Avengers unless he has to kick their ass or straighten them out for getting out of line. It has to make sense...like why on earth would Spider Man be involved in something that Magneto himself would give attention to? He can let Exodus, Uniscione, or a more friendly face like Rogue talk on his behalf. Now Sinister harassing the Avengers or the Fantastic Four over Franklin was always a easy money storyline.