What gives a villain good staying power?

[Rosebunse]

I think we also need to consider what someone means by "staying power."

Plenty of villains go in and out of fashion depending on the times and who is writing them. Others, like Loki and even Magneto, sort of change with the times, which has in recent years meant going almost completely hero.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It's hard to say definitively in terms of a formula. Because it's always a mix of factors. Visual design and characteristic is the main thing however.

I think we also need to consider what someone means by "staying power."

Plenty of villains go in and out of fashion depending on the times and who is writing them. Others, like Loki and even Magneto, sort of change with the times, which has in recent years meant going almost completely hero.

Yeah. I mean until Frank Miller, Kingpin was this minor Spider-Man villains. He didn't make many appearances, but Miller made him into one of Marvel's most iconic villains. Magneto is what we know him as today thanks to Claremont.

[Rosebunse]

Another villain is Apocalypse, who we haven't really seen a lot of since the early 2000s. Yes, we have him in AoX, but that was after almost a decade of not seeing him really at all, despite the fact that his presence wasn't totally absent from comics.

Apocalypse was one of the biggest villains Marvel ever had, so what made him drop out of fashion? Was it his look? His inability to really change with the times the way Loki and Magneto and Kingpin have?

I'm not counting Evan as Apocalypse because while he is connected to him, they are very different characters.

[Snoop Dogg]

Another villain is Apocalypse, who we haven't really seen a lot of since the early 2000s. Yes, we have him in AoX, but that was after almost a decade of not seeing him really at all, despite the fact that his presence wasn't totally absent from comics.

Apocalypse was one of the biggest villains Marvel ever had, so what made him drop out of fashion? Was it his look? His inability to really change with the times the way Loki and Magneto and Kingpin have?

I'm not counting Evan as Apocalypse because while he is connected to him, they are very different characters.

he sucks and is carried by one blockbuster event from the 90's

[Triniking1234]

Even X-Men Evolution under-utilised Apocalypse. People are just bad at portraying him.

Uncanny X-Force mostly played around with who could fill in the void with him gone but the most we got out of it was some new X-Kid people like to use for some reason.

[Omega Alpha]

Another villain is Apocalypse, who we haven't really seen a lot of since the early 2000s. Yes, we have him in AoX, but that was after almost a decade of not seeing him really at all, despite the fact that his presence wasn't totally absent from comics.

Apocalypse was one of the biggest villains Marvel ever had, so what made him drop out of fashion? Was it his look? His inability to really change with the times the way Loki and Magneto and Kingpin have?

I'm not counting Evan as Apocalypse because while he is connected to him, they are very different characters.

Apocalypse essentially became an excuse to give a power boost to depowered/underpowered heroes as horsemen. Plus, he went from complex motivations and plans under Simonson to "destroy everything" bruiser.

[Iron Maiden]

There are some other factors that are important with villains:

Versatility. This is what is lacking with many of the X-Men villains. You rarely see them operate outside of the X Titles, even some of the bigger ones like Magneto. The Kingpin was mentioned earlier. He can be used in a number of stories that feature a "street level" hero like Spider-Man, Daredevil, Moon Knight, etc. He also works well on those occasions when a group of villains have a summit meeting or common cause because he has an important base of operations. The Crime Boss villains sounds cliche but we all know how dangerous they are in the RW.

Motivation It also helps when writers provide the "why" the character. But it doesn't always have to be there. For example, with Heath Ledger's Joker he gave about 2 or 3 back stories at various points of the movie. We don't know if any of them are true or not and it may not even matter. It also helps when the villain is the type that believes he is the hero of his story.

Gravitas and Consistency When Hero A is in conflict with Villain B you want there to be some doubt that the hero can come out ahead. In the movies for example, IMO some of the more dangerous villains were Red Grant (Robert Shaw) for James Bond (Sean Connery)and Liberty Valence (Lee Marvin) for John Wayne (Tom Doniphan). I use Bond and just about any John Wayne character as examples of the protaganists who always overcome their opponent. But the drama is heightend if you really felt like this was going to be a tough fight to win.

But that gravitas can be easily lost in the comics. Case in point: Squirrel Girl vs just about anyone. Most villains have survived with their credibility mostly intact but it can still be a problem when the hero vs villain match is handled in a manner that is not consistent with known abilities / power levels.

[Vordan]

Another writer using them well after the first writer.
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This is basically key. You can spend all the time building up your villain, but if that villain never gets used after you, they’ll quickly be forgotten.

[JudicatorPrime]

No deep thought required here. The villain simply needs to be a foil, or credible obstruction for the hero. What sustains the villain IS the hero.

[Triniking1234]

No deep thought required here. The villain simply needs to be a foil, or credible obstruction for the hero. What sustains the villain IS the hero.

Then why do we still have to suffer through Taskmaster?

[Iron Maiden]

No deep thought required here. The villain simply needs to be a foil, or credible obstruction for the hero. What sustains the villain IS the hero.

Not always. I think Doom has done pretty well on his own: Super-Villain Team-Up, Astonishing Tales had stories of varying quality but there are some good ones in there. Doom 2099 was one of the better of the 2099 series, especially the Warren Ellis issues. And none of it relied on Reed. I even give Infamous Iron Man props for giving a (mostly) logical path for post SW Doom.

[JudicatorPrime]

Probably a topic for another thread, but with all of the hero vs. hero crap, and given that fact that many heroes have life perspectives and philosophies that are shared by some villains, I'm actually shocked that we don't see instances where the enemy (villain) of one hero is another hero's friend. And I'm not just talking about the "noble villains", either.

[9th.]

Another writer using them well after the first writer.
.

Exactly, this doesn't happen nearly enough. Everyone wants to use the iconic ones

[Triniking1234]

Stan Lee also established Doom by having him bully other heroes besides the FF early on.

[JudicatorPrime]

Then why do we still have to suffer through Taskmaster?

The Taskmaster, as in the guy whose abilities are mirror images of other characters, esp., heroes, skill abilities? He's the perfect embodiment of a foil.