What gives a villain good staying power?

[PCN24454]

There is not many reasons for Magneto to be in Thor, Hulk, or the Avengers unless he has to kick their ass or straighten them out for getting out of line. It has to make sense...like why on earth would Spider Man be involved in something that Magneto himself would give attention to? He can let Exodus, Uniscione, or a more friendly face like Rogue talk on his behalf. Now Sinister harassing the Avengers or the Fantastic Four over Franklin was always a easy money storyline.

They’ve managed to Spider-Man vs. Magneto a few times without it coming off as contrived, so it’s hardly impossible.

[Vordan]

Gorr didn't stay long but his impact on Thor is still felt years later.

Because Jason Aaron is still writing Thor. Let’s see if the post-Aaron Thor swells on Gorr that much.

[Frontier]

Because Jason Aaron is still writing Thor. Let’s see if the post-Aaron Thor swells on Gorr that much.

I'm wondering the same for Malekith to be honest.

[Sutekh]

Probably a topic for another thread, but with all of the hero vs. hero crap, and given that fact that many heroes have life perspectives and philosophies that are shared by some villains, I'm actually shocked that we don't see instances where the enemy (villain) of one hero is another hero's friend. And I'm not just talking about the "noble villains", either.

Something I like about Scott Lang is that he's kinda/sorta 'friends' with several villains like the Machinesmith, Grizzly and the new Beetle (Janice).

As much as they've interacted over the years, Peter Parker probably has a better relationship with several members of his rogue's gallery than he ever did with other people in his life, like J. Jonah Jameson, who isn't *technically* a villain...

[Rosebunse]

Because Jason Aaron is still writing Thor. Let’s see if the post-Aaron Thor swells on Gorr that much.

We have seen a little of him in Venom...very little, but he exists. I'm not sure Gorr was really ever meant to have a ton of staying power. And that isn't a bad thing. I mean, why do all villains need staying power or to be used all the time?

I'm wondering the same for Malekith to be honest.

Is Malekith really even the focus? Seems like the real villain of the story is the toxicity of the Odinson family.

Something I like about Scott Lang is that he's kinda/sorta 'friends' with several villains like the Machinesmith, Grizzly and the new Beetle (Janice).

As much as they've interacted over the years, Peter Parker probably has a better relationship with several members of his rogue's gallery than he ever did with other people in his life, like J. Jonah Jameson, who isn't *technically* a villain...

How many villains does Peter really hate? Osborn, Morbius to a lesser extent, Jackall...probably Kraven right now.

[GrandEleven]

In a word: foil.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I think it depends on the story and characters. In the case of Spider-Man, his villains will never be as complex and complicated as he is. The heart of his story is his relationship with his supporting cast. Whereas the bad guys are there mostly for him to beat up and look good and allow him to demonstrate a complete range of his skills, powers, and grit.

Like compare Kingpin in Spider-Man stories to Kingpin in Daredevil stories. There's not one story with Kingpin-in-Spider-man as good as Kingpin-in-Daredevil. Kingpin became an in-your-face threat to Matt Murdock that he never did with Peter (well until Back in Black where Spider-Man beats the bejezus out of him). By the same token, inversely, I don't think it's controversial to argue that Norman Osborn wasn't as effective as a Marvel-wide villain as he was as a personal Spider-Man villain. There were some good stories done with Marvel-Wide Norman, but it wasn't something that suited him or felt entirely consistent with the character as he was originally conceived.

In my view, Dr. Strange has a pretty underrated rogues gallery -- Nightmare, Dormammu, D'Spayre, Shuma Gorath, Baron Mordo.

In Fantastic Four, Dr. Doom broke out big time and has become a mythos distinct unto himself. He has his own supporting cast with Boris, Kristoff, and also depending on the writer/backstory, Valeria. He has his own "Uncle Ben" figure with Cynthia von Doom. But that's not the case with other FF rogues like Mole Man, Molecule Man, Galactus, Puppetmaster (who I always saw as the second personal nemesis for the Four after Reed, via connection through Alicia), Annihilus.

[Snoop Dogg]

Gorr was a starter villain, Malekith will stick around because he's like classic Loki and Thor doesn't have a consistent rogues gallery anyway.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Gorr was a starter villain, Malekith will stick around because he's like classic Loki and Thor doesn't have a consistent rogues gallery anyway.

Thor has Loki, Amora, Surtur, Mangog, Malekith, and now Gorr who is surely a classic. That's actually a pretty deep one. We also can't forget that Ego the Living Planet who has spun off to be a Marvel-wide cosmic figure -- sometimes bad guy, sometimes ally, always Ego -- started out as a Thor villain, and he does show up as a villain bonded with the All-Black in Aaron's run with the Future Thor.

Thor's rogues gallery certainly looks more dense compared to say, Superman.

[Snoop Dogg]

Thor has Loki, Amora, Surtur, Mangog, Malekith, and now Gorr who is surely a classic. That's actually a pretty deep one. We also can't forget that Ego the Living Planet who has spun off to be a Marvel-wide cosmic figure -- sometimes bad guy, sometimes ally, always Ego -- started out as a Thor villain, and he does show up as a villain bonded with the All-Black in Aaron's run with the Future Thor.

Thor's rogues gallery certainly looks more dense compared to say, Superman.

Thor looks like he has a healthy rogues gallery if you write them down on a list, but he barely meets them. There are only a handful of Malekith stories before Jason's stuff with only the Simonson stuff being notable for him before that (to the point that he was a gag villain in Hercules and now he's the villain of a linewide event), there are only a couple of Surtur stories with only Simonson's and Everything Burns being notable, and there are barely any Mangog stories and after Lee/Kirby he was just going through villain decay until Aaron reconceptualized him. Even including supporting character roles, Enchantress will vanish off the face of the earth for years. Thor doesn't fight Ulik much. Thor doesn't fight Ymir often, and when he does he's not treated as seriously as Surtur even though they're equals. Thor's Earth-based villains went to fight other heroes. The only consistently used Thor villains are Loki and Hela. Lee and Kirby created a rich rogues gallery for the character, but the sparse and sloppy use of most of them over the years has left it very ill-defined until Aaron had them form a union.