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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Yep. It is worse than this though. Uncanny is equally just filling space. It is literally tidying up some key characters to place them in the right position for a relaunch. Nominally there has been an ongoing story running in from Astonishing, but itís not an important story.

    The X-books have been a mess since Secret Wars. A few interesting titles but the flagship books just loose their way. Every attempt to sort the problem lasts a few issues and they change tack, so there is no clear ongoing narrative.
    Unfortunately true. It's a real shame because some books I really enjoyed, like All New Wolverine, X Men Red and Generation X, get lumped in with the X verse as a whole and suffer for it. I was very excited for Hickman coming on board but the news that it's for limited series is a bummer for me. I'm sure I'll love the series but I would much prefer they just gave him two ongoings, got out of the way and made all other books work around his long term story. They were given a no brainer way to establish a long term vision and direction for the X books but didn't take advantage imo.

  2. #107
    Fantastic Member Flashback's Avatar
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    @DragonsChi, you asked me why I brought CG to the conversation and my latest response to you was to explain why. My initial post was about the method you suggested that upset fans should do and I brought up CG half jokingly to remind people that disgruntled fans hitting up Marvel on social media didn't go well the last time.

    You may not believe CG is a real thing, but to the whole comic industry and especially the writers, they do. It's only been a year since things dialed down, writers aren't going to be particularly keen on having an open dialogue with fans, suggesting they know how to improve sales any time soon. Rallying upset fans to go on social media is a big no no, you can't control the outcome. That is it.

  3. #108
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashback View Post
    Rallying upset fans to go on social media is a big no no, you can't control the outcome. That is it.
    Naw, not buying that. Attaching the #/@Marvel or #/@DCcomics(DC is currently not as bad) will do nothing more then draw attention to other people and show both companies that fans are not liking what is going on and would like better.

    If creators get huffy or can't handle that then they have a block and mute function at their disposal. If they still can't handle after that then they are long over due for some form of emotional counseling on how to deal with your feeling as an adult.
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  4. #109
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    As fans we should take out panel, point to stories, point to characters, point to bad actors in the industry and let the company know we are tired of all of it. We just want good, consistent stories, that do not trample on and eventually ruin what we love.

    The Sales Numbers have been showing for the last 3 years that consistent comic fans are tired of the lack of quality. They have and still are ignoring that. I feel it's time we speak up. No one else is going to stand up for this industry if we don't. Point blank.
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  5. #110
    VEGETATIVE INJUSTICE! Kurisu's Avatar
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    Who exactly are these bad actors? And where are these characters and stories so bad their killing the industry? Who gets to decide what constitutes “good, consistent” stories?

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Again when you are trying to sell a superhero comic book and your preview art consist of people standing around measuring but not measuring their junk I'm pretty sure they might be on the right track.

    If you see another book and their bunch heroes standing around talking what amounts to nothing in preview art...you know art that should grab the reader and make them interested, you may have something to say when the book is selling at 3000 copies.


    How about a book that gives you the impression that its a SUPERHERO comic but when you start reading it its really about two side characters finding love in all the wrong places.

    AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

    Those are for sure things fans tap on Marvels door and go "Why?" can you stop this and give us something more in the vein of Amazing Spider #361. Or something at the very least fits the genre I'm trying to hand over my money too.

    Edit: In short pull out the stuff that is clearly hurting the industry show it to them and other people. Eventually, they will fix it or respond.
    In a single month there are so many things right now that aren't what Superhero Comics are about in Marvels stuff you may never go short of material you can use or find to say "Your sales have been in a major decline going into the fourth year in a row. As comic fan here is what I think you are getting wrong".
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 05-20-2019 at 04:21 PM.
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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Again when you are trying to sell a superhero comic book and your preview art consist of people standing around measuring but not measuring their junk I'm pretty sure they might be on the right track.

    If you see another book and their bunch heroes standing around talking what amounts to nothing in preview art...you know art that should grab the reader and make them interested, you may have something to say when the book is selling at 3000 copies.


    How about a book that gives you the impression that its a SUPERHERO comic but when you start reading it its really about two side characters finding love in all the wrong places.

    AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

    Those are for sure things fans tap on Marvels door and go "Why?" can you stop this and give us something more in the vein of Amazing Spider #361. Or something at the very least fits the genre I'm trying to hand over my money too.

    Edit: In short pull out the stuff that is clearly hurting the industry show it to them and other people. Eventually, they will fix it or respond.
    In a single month there are so many things right now that aren't what Superhero Comics are about in Marvels stuff you may never go short of material you can use or find to say "Your sales have been in a major decline going into the fourth year in a row. As comic fan here is what I think you are getting wrong".
    You say "aren't what superhero comics are about" but it would be much more accurate to say "comics I don't like". Superhero comics aren't about any one thing and every person has their own ideas about what superhero comics should be. It seems like you're trying to give your opinion more weight by framing it as the upholding of some agreed upon standard. Your personal tastes aren't going to become a rallying cry for people to harass creators online.

  8. #113
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    You say "aren't what superhero comics are about" but it would be much more accurate to say "comics I don't like". Superhero comics aren't about any one thing and every person has their own ideas about what superhero comics should be. It seems like you're trying to give your opinion more weight by framing it as the upholding of some agreed upon standard. Your personal tastes aren't going to become a rallying cry for people to harass creators online.
    Wrong.

    Superhero comics are and have always been a specific type of medium/genre. When someone goes pick up a superhero book and it does not touch on the basic idea of what a SUPERHERO should be about the individual is put in a state of confusion. They go back get something else and it happens again they are then put in a state of rejection. They are hit with it a few more times and they are completely turned off by it altogether.

    If you buy tickets to see lil Wayne and you end up getting Taylor Swift or lil Waynes imitation of Taylor Swift NO ONE would balk at you either wanting your money back or saying screw lil Wayne. Same story here.

    Superhero comics are coming on being 73 years old of those years people knew what to expect and what they wanted from these books. It's only been about 5-6 years where the expectation does not meet reality and people have the nerve to tell them not to expect anything at all. NOTHING has changed from then to now on what people want and expect from SUPERHEROES. Only thing different is that the SALES NUMBERS are so LOW that they are basically SCREAMING for help and the reason is so CRYSTAL CLEAR no one can deny it.

    PEOPLE aren't buying. And it's not because of silly superficial reasons people like to make up so they don't have to look themselves in the mirror or question what they believe or whatever distracting dribble. They aren't buying because genre is only meeting their expectation in a small areas and everywhere else their playing Russian roulette with a gun loaded with 5 bullets.(That one was so good I had to bring it back Jk)
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 05-20-2019 at 06:33 PM.
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  9. #114
    Take Me Higher The Negative Zone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    The term "toxic" is way over used in todays culture, to begin with.
    Uh alright.. I'll rephrase my statement.. Fans trying to "save" comics in the past has led to delusional, negative, and downright dumb groups like ComicsGate.
    What fans need to do is start pointing out why there books aren't selling now verse when they where actually selling before.
    But the company can see that for themselves and interpret it with much more knowledge and expertise than a fan could.
    If you see a book where the preview art has characters standing around for 3 whole pages either eating, or literally insulating penis measuring among men that would be a great opportunity to hit social media and go "Hey Marvel No body is laughing and gets excited about dudes standing in a circle talking but not talking about their Johnson's" .
    That's completely subjective and not evident of most Marvel comics? I for one would love to actually read a filler story where characters just interact and talk. Look there's dozens of reasons comics aren't selling as well.. and I'm pretty sure the answer can't be fixed by "just write good superhero stories."
    We need to let them know regardless of who is writing or what character is in the book that when its been cancelled for the 3rd or 4th time that people are not interested in this and then point them in another direction of characters who can fill the same role but may have a larger fan base. Scarlet Witch for Squirrel girl type deal. (just an example not a real comparison)

    In short at this point as a whole Superhero Comic Book Readers need to say ENOUGH. Because if we don't the people currently operating within who are only in it to move themselves forward or push whatever agenda will drive these characters and books into the ground and ruin it for all of us. Disney will only put up with low sales for so long. When they pull that cord what comes next will not be good for anyone.

    One voice in the darkness is barley heard. But a group of voices can carry over mountain tops.
    Honestly, I'm really skeptical this would amount to anything and if it would amount to anything good. My biggest problem with this is that I've been hearing mostly good things about Marvel lately so..

    If you really wanna change comics, I'd suggest getting into the business.

    But hey, maybe you're right, comics are dying. Nothing lasts forever after all. Maybe we should just be reading and supporting comics we enjoy instead of complaining about bad ones?

  10. #115
    VEGETATIVE INJUSTICE! Kurisu's Avatar
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    You can throw a dart at any X-Men comic from the 80s and you’re guaranteed to hit a commercially successful issue filled to the brim with characters standing around talking. It’s a really weird criticism to have of modern comics.

    Also comics have never been (nor should they ever be...) strictly superheroes. Archie and Peanuts have been around as long as Marvel has. Why should now be any different and why would the difference bring in more readers?
    Last edited by Kurisu; 05-20-2019 at 09:23 PM.

  11. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    I was very excited for Hickman coming on board but the news that it's for limited series is a bummer for me. I'm sure I'll love the series but I would much prefer they just gave him two ongoings, got out of the way and made all other books work around his long term story. They were given a no brainer way to establish a long term vision and direction for the X books but didn't take advantage imo.
    Huh? Seems you will get just about what want:

    https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/05...e-powers-of-x/

  12. #117
    Incredible Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurisu View Post
    You can throw a dart at any X-Men comic from the 80s and youíre guaranteed to hit a commercially successful issue filled to the brim with characters standing around talking. Itís a really weird criticism to have of modern comics.
    On the contrary, the lack of action in modern comics is a pointed criticism that Marvel needs to address. The advantage of comic books is that it's a visual medium, unrestrained by the physical limitations of a live-action story. Yet the amateur talent that modern Marvel has assembled wasted page space on empty dialogue, with decidedly unheroic characters standing around and talking about nothing. Marvel's superheroes are no longer fantastic, they are mundane and petty and that's just driving readers away.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    On the contrary, the lack of action in modern comics is a pointed criticism that Marvel needs to address. The advantage of comic books is that it's a visual medium, unrestrained by the physical limitations of a live-action story. Yet the amateur talent that modern Marvel has assembled wasted page space on empty dialogue, with decidedly unheroic characters standing around and talking about nothing. Marvel's superheroes are no longer fantastic, they are mundane and petty and that's just driving readers away.
    Who's the amateur talent at Marvel? Please name them.

    Because right now, they're chock full of great writers and artists.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by myownlittleusername View Post
    Huh? Seems you will get just about what want:

    https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/05...e-powers-of-x/
    Honestly, I'm darn excited for Hickman's return.

    The X-men line desperately needs a "retooling".
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  15. #120
    Incredible Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Who's the amateur talent at Marvel? Please name them.

    Because right now, they're chock full of great writers and artists.
    Speaking in strictly general terms the reputation of Marvel at the moment is that they seem to be hiring directly from Tumblr. Getting a job a Marvel used to be something writers and artists had to earn, after years in the industry with a proven track record (read: profitable books) at other comic publishers. Now all you need to get into Marvel is to show the right politics and have a willingness to work for below minimum wage.

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