Fixing Spider-Man's history

[Ursalink]

One of the few things I hated about comics is how, no matter what changes about them, comic characters always return to their previous status quo. (Well, almost always, as Carol Danvers is no longer Miss Marvel). But still, this happens TOO often, especially in Spider-Man's world. That's why I'm trying to think a way to fix the errors commited in this area for years.

1º) One of the biggest messes in Spider-Man's world are the symbiotes. I have some ideas to fix the old problems about who has which symbiote. Let's see:
+ Venom: The original symbiote, I guess its host can only be Eddie Brock. But after seeing his recent movie, I can't stop thinking that Spider-Man's role in its backstory can't be avoided.
+ Carnage: It's main host is Cletus Kassady, but seeing Carnage combined with Norman Osborn (as the Red Goblin), I can't stop thinking maybe Osborn could be an even better host.
+ Scream: Removing Donna Diego from the Equation, I believe its perfect host would be Carnage's girlfriend, Shriek.
+ Lasher, Phage, Agony and Riot: Along with Carnage, and Shriek as Scream, these 6 could be "Maximum Carnage". Problem is, I don't think about suitable host for them. One of them could be Lee Price, merged with Riot. The others, I think I need to think better.
+ Sleeper: The newest symbiote until now could cover the role of "Venom: Agent of Cosmos", only instead of Flash Thompson, I believe its host could be John Jameson, as he's an astronaut. Besides, the symbiote could cure Jameson from his curse with the Wolf-Man.

+ Toxin: I believe this should be the symbiote bonded with Flash Thompson in his main incarnation as "Agent Venom". In his last appearance with Brock, it had a look similar to "Agent Venom". So, making Flash permently as "Agent Toxin" sounds like the perfect solution.
+ Anti-Venom: You'll find this weird, but I believe the perfect hosts for this symbiote should be Kaine or Ben Reilly. I think I choose the latter better, because their healing capacities could help to stabilize their clone bodies and stop the tiring plot of the clone degeneration.
+ Mania: Not sure about this one. On one hand, I think it could bond with Ann (Eddie's ex-wife) and give her a form like "She-Venom". But on the other hand, I see this one bonding with Black Cat (Felicia Hardy); then working with Flash as "Agent Toxin" as his teammate and "something else".
+ Scorn: I see this one as something very special. I see it combined with the Iron Spider's armor, allowing Spider-Man to have his "ultimate suit". Not only that, but it could be wore by Mary Jane too. Being half machine, this symbiote looks way more "stable".

2º) The second mess needed to be fix in Spider-Man's world are the clones. I will focus mainly in Peter Parker's clones. Let's see:
+ Kaine: I believe I prefer his most recent incarnation, with the role of Scarlet Spider. However, before that, he could wear Anti-Venom (in his monster form) for a time, so he could heal from the clone degeneration. After that, he loose the symbiote and becomes the new Scarlet Spider.
+ Ben Reilly: He could be the first Scarlet Spider, but then he bonds with Anti-Venom and becomes something like "Ghost Spider", having a look similar to FF's Spidey. In my version, Ben never dies and stays sane, so he uses Anti-Venom's healing abilities for the best.
+ Spidercide: Venom evolved beyond his classic role of Spider-Man's enemy, so it doesn't have sense to keep him in the gallery. In his place, I believe Spidercide is the perfect replacement. It has a twisted/sick mind and similar power to Venom.
+ Jack: A clone of Peter Parker who posed as the Jackal. I believe this clone could have the role of Ben Reilly as the new Jackal, so Ben can stay as pure as he originally was.
+ Guardian: This defective clone of Peter Parker could have taken a role alongside "Jack", and use Kaine's original role, look and suit.

I'm thinking about other ideas to fix Spider-Man's history. Do you have any to share? What do you think of mine?

[Cmbmool]

You aren't even going to mention OMD are you ?

[HypnoHustler]

Basically this is your fan-fiction; the world of Spidey according to Ursalink. That’s fine, there’s plenty of outlets for fan-fic out there. But this isn’t “fixing” Spidey’s history from my perspective. Yes, the character is over 50 years old and so his history is very convoluted. But I can’t say your ideas are much better than the real continuity. And in some cases they’re worse and/or unnecessary.

[Huntsman Spider]

Not bad. About the only major fixes to Spider-Man's history needed besides the deal with the clones and the symbiotes are Sins Past and One More Day. Those are the biggest blots on the web-slinger's history. Sins Past accomplished nothing but tarnishing Gwen Stacy's memory, even if as some pointed out, she was a lot more flawed and imperfect as a character than people would like to dwell on. One More Day accomplished nothing but tarnishing Spider-Man himself to undo the biggest hallmark in his growth and maturation as a hero and a character. Both of those added nothing to the Spider-Man mythos, but instead took so much away, so I would fix those primarily. As for how?

Sins Past is easy enough. Norman Osborn is a liar. He drugged Gwen, artificially inseminated her with bioengineered offspring from his and her DNA, and implanted false memories so that she'd believe she willfully slept with him. Have Spider-Man trying to shut down Osborn's old lairs so no one can take up the Goblin legacy and he ends up finding the journal where Osborn is privately gloating about how he got a big one over on his archenemy.

One More Day . . . well, that would be resolved by someone --- whether Doctor Strange, Loki, Ghost Rider, or Deadpool --- revealing to Peter and Mary Jane that their lives had been tampered with and manipulated by Mephisto to make them give up on their love for each other. Then they'd journey together to Mephisto's hell-dimension to beat him up and take their marriage back from him.

[Ursalink]

You aren't even going to mention OMD are you ?

For the time being, I'm just trying to fix the part about "who is who" instead of the great events. Of course, OMD, Sins of the Past and the original Superio Spider-Man were wrong at many levels, but I prefer to focus first on the "Identity Crisis" of some characters.

Basically this is your fan-fiction; the world of Spidey according to Ursalink. That’s fine, there’s plenty of outlets for fan-fic out there. But this isn’t “fixing” Spidey’s history from my perspective. Yes, the character is over 50 years old and so his history is very convoluted. But I can’t say your ideas are much better than the real continuity. And in some cases they’re worse and/or unnecessary.

Excuse me, but this is not fanfiction. There may be a little personal ideas, but there's no story behind this. I'm just trying to find a way to stop the classic "unstable status" that many characters have. For example:
1º) Eddie Brock (Venom), Mag Gargan (Scorpion), Toxin (Patrick Mulligan).
2º) Eddie Brock (Anti-Venom), Mac Gargan (Venom), Toxin (???).
3º) Eddie Brock (Anti-Venom), Mac Gargan (Scorpion), Flash Thompson (Agent Venom), Toxin (???).
4º) Eddie Brock (Toxin), Flash Thompson (Agent Venom), Toxin (???).
5º) Eddie Brock (Venom), Flash Thomspn (Anti-Venom)....

It gives me a migraine to follow how they change things continuosly as this was the Wheel of Fortune of something. I simply gives a stable solution to stop this continuous changes:
+ Eddie Brock (Venom), Flash Thompson (Agent Toxin), Ben Reilly (Anti-Venom).

Not bad. About the only major fixes to Spider-Man's history needed besides the deal with the clones and the symbiotes are Sins Past and One More Day.

I second your opinions, pal; but right now I'm not dealing with the big events. However, if you allow me, let me tell you something:
+ "One More Day": The best way to erase it, something big happened to Spider-Man that have to take him and his family away from the Civil War. Something like Spider-Verse or something, since Morlun debuted before this event. That way, Spidey avoids the conflict; no secret identity revealed, no deal with Mephisto, no erasure of the marriage.
+ "Sins of Past": Norman actually take DNA samples of Peter and Gwen, use the Jackal's tech to create Sarah and Gabriel, brainwash them and make them hate and attack Peter and his beloved ones. The said they wanted Gabriel and Sarah being Peter's kids originally, so this could be a way to do it without ruining Gwen's reputation.
+ "Superior Spider-Man": This is another one it should be erased or modified. From the beginning, Doc Ock usurps a clone body of Peter, not Peter itself. Right before the switch, Peter is captured and replaced by a clone from the Jackal, so Ock ends up inside a clone. In the end, Amazing and "Superior" have a beatdown and everybody knows "Superior" was an imposter.

[PCN24454]

The best way to fix OMD is for Peter to be never seen again. It’s that easy.

[Sectal]

Honestly, I would prefer Kaine to have the toxin symbiote rather than the anti-venom symbiote. Toxin makes since with Kaine as they are both characters that try to find their own identity apart from their progenitors. They have also experienced loss of loved ones and carry guilt over their deaths.
Ben Reilly doesn’t need a symbiote, he needs to find purpose and direction that feel personal. That’s what he has truly lacked since coming back into comics.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

One of the few things I hated about comics is how, no matter what changes about them, comic characters always return to their previous status quo. (Well, almost always, as Carol Danvers is no longer Miss Marvel). But still, this happens TOO often, especially in Spider-Man's world. That's why I'm trying to think a way to fix the errors commited in this area for years.

"Those who fight monsters should take care they do not become monsters themselves. As you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes back into you".

What I mean is that pretty much every "return to status-quo" that you decry was decided by some writer/editor as a way to "fix the errors" or what they see as errors and so on. I am not saying there's stuff in Spider-Man that doesn't need fixing, because there absolutely is especially after OMD-BND and so on, but it would be hard to go about doing it without coming across as exactly the problem you are fighting against

The second mess needed to be fix in Spider-Man's world are the clones. I will focus mainly in Peter Parker's clones.

My solution to the clones is simple. Kill. Them. All. Every. Last. One. Chop them up, cremate them, and make sure their ashes are dumped, divded, mixed, and scattered across the place. Oh and destroy the cloning tech. Get Reed, the Living Tribunal, Doom, Iron Man and others to basically delete Warren's work and Warren himself from the record books.

The First Clone Saga by Gerry Conway was a story about Gwen's death and getting over it. Warren and Jackal were never intended as a villain to stick around. They have no staying power and their stories always take Spider-Man away from his roots.

I'm thinking about other ideas to fix Spider-Man's history. Do you have any to share? What do you think of mine?

All I am saying is that there are people who like the Symbiotes, and who like the Clones. I for one enjoyed the Tom Hardy Venom movie a great deal and I have read the opening arc of Donny Cates' run, "Rex", and that was kind of cool. I also like Conway's Carnage miniseries.

I despise the clones. To me Ben Reilly is a terrible character and to the extent he ever had a purpose, that was lost. He became extinct the minute Miles Morales graced the earth as the biggest new characters since Venom and Carnage. But at the same time there are people who do like those clones. Kaine especially for reasons I just cannot fathom. As long as Kaine has his own title and doing stuff in his own small separate place where I can pretend he doesn't exist, it doesn't bother me. And I am not going to say no to that and so on.

Stuff like making Dr. Octopus a hero is much more bothersome to me because that is a character who was always intended to be pure scum and incapable of redemption or human feeling. There's not one story or issue with a heroic Ock fit to shine the shoes of the Master Planner, the Death of George Stacy, the Sinister Six, the Owl/Octopus War, all of which depend on Octopus as a pure villain. To me that kind of thing takes away a classic member of Spider-Man's rogues gallery and leaves in place basically another Venom or Kaine knock-off.

[boots]

One of the few things I hated about comics is how, no matter what changes about them, comic characters always return to their previous status quo. (Well, almost always, as Carol Danvers is no longer Miss Marvel). But still, this happens TOO often, especially in Spider-Man's world. That's why I'm trying to think a way to fix the errors commited in this area for years.

1º) One of the biggest messes in Spider-Man's world are the symbiotes. I have some ideas to fix the old problems about who has which symbiote. Let's see:
+ Venom: The original symbiote, I guess its host can only be Eddie Brock. But after seeing his recent movie, I can't stop thinking that Spider-Man's role in its backstory can't be avoided.
+ Carnage: It's main host is Cletus Kassady, but seeing Carnage combined with Norman Osborn (as the Red Goblin), I can't stop thinking maybe Osborn could be an even better host.
+ Scream: Removing Donna Diego from the Equation, I believe its perfect host would be Carnage's girlfriend, Shriek.
+ Lasher, Phage, Agony and Riot: Along with Carnage, and Shriek as Scream, these 6 could be "Maximum Carnage". Problem is, I don't think about suitable host for them. One of them could be Lee Price, merged with Riot. The others, I think I need to think better.
+ Sleeper: The newest symbiote until now could cover the role of "Venom: Agent of Cosmos", only instead of Flash Thompson, I believe its host could be John Jameson, as he's an astronaut. Besides, the symbiote could cure Jameson from his curse with the Wolf-Man.

+ Toxin: I believe this should be the symbiote bonded with Flash Thompson in his main incarnation as "Agent Venom". In his last appearance with Brock, it had a look similar to "Agent Venom". So, making Flash permently as "Agent Toxin" sounds like the perfect solution.
+ Anti-Venom: You'll find this weird, but I believe the perfect hosts for this symbiote should be Kaine or Ben Reilly. I think I choose the latter better, because their healing capacities could help to stabilize their clone bodies and stop the tiring plot of the clone degeneration.
+ Mania: Not sure about this one. On one hand, I think it could bond with Ann (Eddie's ex-wife) and give her a form like "She-Venom". But on the other hand, I see this one bonding with Black Cat (Felicia Hardy); then working with Flash as "Agent Toxin" as his teammate and "something else".
+ Scorn: I see this one as something very special. I see it combined with the Iron Spider's armor, allowing Spider-Man to have his "ultimate suit". Not only that, but it could be wore by Mary Jane too. Being half machine, this symbiote looks way more "stable".

2º) The second mess needed to be fix in Spider-Man's world are the clones. I will focus mainly in Peter Parker's clones. Let's see:
+ Kaine: I believe I prefer his most recent incarnation, with the role of Scarlet Spider. However, before that, he could wear Anti-Venom (in his monster form) for a time, so he could heal from the clone degeneration. After that, he loose the symbiote and becomes the new Scarlet Spider.
+ Ben Reilly: He could be the first Scarlet Spider, but then he bonds with Anti-Venom and becomes something like "Ghost Spider", having a look similar to FF's Spidey. In my version, Ben never dies and stays sane, so he uses Anti-Venom's healing abilities for the best.
+ Spidercide: Venom evolved beyond his classic role of Spider-Man's enemy, so it doesn't have sense to keep him in the gallery. In his place, I believe Spidercide is the perfect replacement. It has a twisted/sick mind and similar power to Venom.
+ Jack: A clone of Peter Parker who posed as the Jackal. I believe this clone could have the role of Ben Reilly as the new Jackal, so Ben can stay as pure as he originally was.
+ Guardian: This defective clone of Peter Parker could have taken a role alongside "Jack", and use Kaine's original role, look and suit.

I'm thinking about other ideas to fix Spider-Man's history. Do you have any to share? What do you think of mine?

dude, not sure if it needs "fixing". the good thing about the books is they can just ignore symbiotes and clones. that's it.

otherwise, i'm not sure if these are actual fixes, they seem as ... "complex"...as the current material...but could be an alt universe streamlining?

what your post has made pretty apparent is that there's a lot of ideas and themes that writers have rehashed in different forms over time

[boots]

"Those who fight monsters should take care they do not become monsters themselves. As you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes back into you".

What I mean is that pretty much every "return to status-quo" that you decry was decided by some writer/editor as a way to "fix the errors" or what they see as errors and so on. I am not saying there's stuff in Spider-Man that doesn't need fixing, because there absolutely is especially after OMD-BND and so on, but it would be hard to go about doing it without coming across as exactly the problem you are fighting against



My solution to the clones is simple. Kill. Them. All. Every. Last. One. Chop them up, cremate them, and make sure their ashes are dumped, divded, mixed, and scattered across the place. Oh and destroy the cloning tech. Get Reed, the Living Tribunal, Doom, Iron Man and others to basically delete Warren's work and Warren himself from the record books.

The First Clone Saga by Gerry Conway was a story about Gwen's death and getting over it. Warren and Jackal were never intended as a villain to stick around. They have no staying power and their stories always take Spider-Man away from his roots.



All I am saying is that there are people who like the Symbiotes, and who like the Clones. I for one enjoyed the Tom Hardy Venom movie a great deal and I have read the opening arc of Donny Cates' run, "Rex", and that was kind of cool. I also like Conway's Carnage miniseries.

I despise the clones. To me Ben Reilly is a terrible character and to the extent he ever had a purpose, that was lost. He became extinct the minute Miles Morales graced the earth as the biggest new characters since Venom and Carnage. But at the same time there are people who do like those clones. Kaine especially for reasons I just cannot fathom. As long as Kaine has his own title and doing stuff in his own small separate place where I can pretend he doesn't exist, it doesn't bother me. And I am not going to say no to that and so on.

Stuff like making Dr. Octopus a hero is much more bothersome to me because that is a character who was always intended to be pure scum and incapable of redemption or human feeling. There's not one story or issue with a heroic Ock fit to shine the shoes of the Master Planner, the Death of George Stacy, the Sinister Six, the Owl/Octopus War, all of which depend on Octopus as a pure villain. To me that kind of thing takes away a classic member of Spider-Man's rogues gallery and leaves in place basically another Venom or Kaine knock-off.

image1.jpg

30700000000 googs , reverend. you're famous

[Snoop Dogg]

spider-man's history will never be fixed because we will never decide which retcons are bad parallel lives and need to be dropped from continuity

[Miles To Go]

dude, not sure if it needs "fixing". the good thing about the books is they can just ignore symbiotes and clones. that's it.

otherwise, i'm not sure if these are actual fixes, they seem as ... "complex"...as the current materia

You don't want to hear what my "fixes" are from everything to Spider-Man, to X-Men, to Hulk...they would make for a more interesting season of Rick and Morty

[boots]

You don't want to hear what my "fixes" are from everything to Spider-Man, to X-Men, to Hulk...they would make for a more interesting season of Rick and Morty

sounds very marvel. you're hired

[Alan2099]

There are far too many cases of "here are two characters. We should make them into one character" for my liking.

[boots]

There are far too many cases of "here are two characters. We should make them into one character" for my liking.

what if it was three characters?