My friend's enemy is my friend

[kjn]

Over in the Marvel forum, a really interesting idea was posted:

Probably a topic for another thread, but with all of the hero vs. hero crap, and given that fact that many heroes have life perspectives and philosophies that are shared by some villains, I'm actually shocked that we don't see instances there the enemy (villain) of one hero is another hero's friend. And I'm not just talking about the "noble villains", either.

First things first: this would be tricky, because it pretty much requires a constant low-grade crossover to be worthwhile.

My first thought here was Poison Ivy. She has been shown as friend (or ally) with both Barbara Gordon and Swamp Thing, and arguably should go together well with Wonder Woman and Aquaman. At the same time she is clearly an effective antagonist against Bruce Wayne even more than Batman and most other DC heroes. But she is in limbo right now.

Giganta is another possible example, as an enemy of Wonder Woman but in an on-again off-again relationship with The Atom.

As formerly bad characters having a tenuous relation to the law and morality, I can see Harley Quinn and Plastic Man having good relations with a lot of villains.

I can see Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor being extremely impressed with each other, having no problems understanding each other, but at the same time being so competitive that there is no room for any friendship in the normal sense.

[Frontier]

I honestly don't see Bruce being impressed with Lex. He's probably the antithesis of the kind of businessman Bruce views as the ideal, but I guess he could respect Lex's legitimate work in the fields of science and industry, if not his ethics.

Green Arrow is so left-leaning that I wonder if he and Poison Ivy would get along even if he also has the issues of excess machismo that I think Ivy detests.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The Shade.

Moustache-Twirling Enemy of The Flash.

Friend to Starman, and, presumably, Stargirl.

[theoneandonly]

dr Polaris and magenta should get along well.

[Ascended]

It's a good idea, and in reality this should be what happens. Not all heroes share the exact same moral or ethical codes, not all villains agree on their motivations either. Just to use the examples here, Ollie and Ivy would probably agree on a whole lot of things, even if Ivy's methods are more ruthless than Ollie would be comfortable with. Still, those two probably have more in common than Ollie and most politically centric heroes.

But this would destroy the simple binary morality the DCU (and Marvel U) are built on, where good and evil are drawn along clean lines and you're either on one side or the other. The fact that we have anti-heroes and reformed (or semi-reformed) villains is about as far as things can stretch, I think, without the whole thing breaking down.

[kjn]

But this would destroy the simple binary morality the DCU (and Marvel U) are built on, where good and evil are drawn along clean lines and you're either on one side or the other. The fact that we have anti-heroes and reformed (or semi-reformed) villains is about as far as things can stretch, I think, without the whole thing breaking down.

While the superhero universes started out as that type of morality, they haven't really been that way for a long time, and arguably upholding such a binary morality holds the genre back. It is arguably one of the things that Watchmen criticises.

So while more morally gray characters and complex friendships would go counter to the binary morality, I don't think the DC universe depends on such a dichotomy, much less the Marvel universe with its long tradition of hero-versus-hero fights.

[DrNewGod]

dr Polaris and magenta should get along well.

Um. The Good Doctor tried to tear Magenta's brain apart to get out of a limbo where Green Lantern had stranded him, so...probs not.

[Frontier]

Um. The Good Doctor tried to tear Magenta's brain apart to get out of a limbo where Green Lantern had stranded him, so...probs not.

It's kind of interesting to think they have such similar gimmicks and personality issues though .

[theoneandonly]

Um. The Good Doctor tried to tear Magenta's brain apart to get out of a limbo where Green Lantern had stranded him, so...probs not.

given her and the doctors issues it won't be much of a barrier to overcome. they could be the besties who will try to kill each other at the drop of a hat or when their interests clash. look at taskmaster and black ant.