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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    That's not the way it works though. If you're an established creator you either have a page rate with an option for royalties or some sort of contract stating how much you get paid. If you're an editor you can ask for changes if you think the story isn't good enough, but you can't go, "Well, Mark Waid...we were going to paid you x for this Avengers story, but it's not as good as your normal work we're only going to give you y."
    But as an editor you can say these are the characters you get to play with and this is the way the story needs to go.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member Panfoot's Avatar
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    I really, really dislike the the super slim, skintight armor look like the the bleeding edge Iron Man armor, or the MCU Infinity War/Endgame Iron Man armors. I feel like the Extremis armor is the best balance of sleek/bulk(and for the MCU maybe the Age of Ultron or Civil War armors).

  3. #78
    Incredible Member Dreaded Porcupine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    I'm not sure it's a small detail, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one, but the idea of almost anybody becoming an Avenger these days annoys me. It's like just about any bunch of people decide to get together and call themselves Avengers. It shouldn't work that way, IMO. Yeah, I'll form a band and we'll call ourselves the "Canadian Beatles", and sing hard rock... don't think it's going to go well :P Plus the fact that they seem to do it more for themselves or the prestige of the name rather than to help and better mankind, it doesn't sit well with me.

    The fact that the new Wasp didn't take her father's name but that of an unrelated person bugs me (no pun intended ). I have had conversations about this before in these forums, and I understand the reasons behind it, even though I don't agree with them. It reeks of movie synergy and none of the arguments for it convinced me it was logical.

    On a similar note, the fact that Hank Pym got a minuscule funeral ceremony with only a few people there bugs me. Heck, Tigra wasn't even there, most of his so-called friends weren't there. Basically the only people there were the ones that we saw in the OGN.
    Couldn’t agree more with this. Hank still gets the shaft. His character was written and destroyed by writers and yet fans blame Hank. Laughable! Yet we have multiple Ant-Men, Giant-Men and Yellow Jackets out there. Even Wasp’s. Thank You Hank for all of these characters while Marvel still dumps all over you. You are still an Original Avenger.

  4. #79
    Incredible Member Dreaded Porcupine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    I really, really dislike the the super slim, skintight armor look like the the bleeding edge Iron Man armor, or the MCU Infinity War/Endgame Iron Man armors. I feel like the Extremis armor is the best balance of sleek/bulk(and for the MCU maybe the Age of Ultron or Civil War armors).
    I’m sticking with his armor in my avatar. Bulky yet with the colors of his modern sleeker armor.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    But as an editor you can say these are the characters you get to play with and this is the way the story needs to go.
    Absolutely, that's the job of the editor. But you can't say you're not going to pay someone their agreed rate because they turned in mediocre work. All you can do in that case is replace them with someone you think will do a better job.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Absolutely, that's the job of the editor. But you can't say you're not going to pay someone their agreed rate because they turned in mediocre work. All you can do in that case is replace them with someone you think will do a better job.
    ... or let them do what they prefer to do, give them more liberty. Someone took the example of Waid back up in the thread. We can all agree that Waid's run on the Avengers from, what, last year?, wasn't exactly memorable. Waid can be a great writer, but I think if you give him characters he doesn't really care about or is not interested in, the story will turn out average at best. Same goes for any writer, really.

    I know the job of a writer is to write about a bunch of characters, and a good writer is supposed to adapt to any situation, but if you're not inspired it will show. If Mark Waid had truly been in charge of the title, he probably wouldn't have picked up those characters for his team, and the stories would have been better IMO.

    It's also the job of the EIC to trust his writers, and not restrict them too much. On the other hand, the EIC should also keep a close eye on continuity so that the liberties the writers take don't contradict what has been written before.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

    #givebackthesuit
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    I really, really dislike the the super slim, skintight armor look like the the bleeding edge Iron Man armor, or the MCU Infinity War/Endgame Iron Man armors. I feel like the Extremis armor is the best balance of sleek/bulk(and for the MCU maybe the Age of Ultron or Civil War armors).
    Me too!!! It looks so ugly and unnatural!

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    ... or let them do what they prefer to do, give them more liberty. Someone took the example of Waid back up in the thread. We can all agree that Waid's run on the Avengers from, what, last year?, wasn't exactly memorable. Waid can be a great writer, but I think if you give him characters he doesn't really care about or is not interested in, the story will turn out average at best. Same goes for any writer, really.

    I know the job of a writer is to write about a bunch of characters, and a good writer is supposed to adapt to any situation, but if you're not inspired it will show. If Mark Waid had truly been in charge of the title, he probably wouldn't have picked up those characters for his team, and the stories would have been better IMO.

    It's also the job of the EIC to trust his writers, and not restrict them too much. On the other hand, the EIC should also keep a close eye on continuity so that the liberties the writers take don't contradict what has been written before.
    You may not know a story is inferior until the sales figures hit, well after you've paid the talent. When a writer's hot, there's no reason to not give them the shot. As for being "into a character," Wolfman was not a fan of The Teen Titans (which he called The Justice Little League) back in 1979. There's no telling what might turn out to be magical, and what should be magical but that will turn out to be dreck.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandEleven View Post
    I'm rather sensitive to how the Marvel Cosmics/Abstracts get portrayed.

    As an example, in Ultimates2 where Order and Chaos casually kill The Living Tribunal, right on the heels of CW2 which had just ... killed The Living Tribunal. It felt like there was a complete disrespect for a being's status in existence and the incomprehensible power it held. Many times people seem to treat the cosmics/abstracts like "really powerful aliens", when they are really supposed to represent so much more than that. I could kind of forgive CW because I felt Emp. God Doom could never co-exist with the Tribunal around and this was a major event ... but in Ultimates2 ... ugh it irked me. I hoped maybe they were taking the opportunity to create a new pantheon in it's wake but no ... Logos came and went, and tribunal returned .. and I was left thinking "uh, all of the multiverse can be threatened that easily?"

    I like my gods to remain mysterious and beyond comprehension in power. To have them reduced to just another group of supers is irritating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    This exactly...if as a writer you cannot take the characters you are assigned and make them great...not by making them clones of the characters you do like...but by making them individuals with their own stories, personalities, etc...then you have no business doing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaded Porcupine View Post
    Couldn’t agree more with this. Hank still gets the shaft. His character was written and destroyed by writers and yet fans blame Hank. Laughable! Yet we have multiple Ant-Men, Giant-Men and Yellow Jackets out there. Even Wasp’s. Thank You Hank for all of these characters while Marvel still dumps all over you. You are still an Original Avenger.
    All of this!!

  10. #85
    Spectacular Member Doombot's Avatar
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    I hate clone/spawn/junior characters. I hate that there are 10 Spider-people, 10 Wolverine people, 20 Hulks etc etc. It completely dilutes the strength of the original character.
    Last edited by Doombot; 05-19-2019 at 08:06 PM.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myownlittleusername View Post
    Does DC treat artists better than Marvel?
    Marvel found out ,or thinks they found out, that artists don’t matter. A book will sell 22,000 copies no matter who is doing the art.

    I wish artists could create 12 issues a year. Shouldn’t they get better with issue 9 or 10, and get very familiar with the world they are depicting? But no, Marvel moves them after 5 or 6 issues.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    The destruction of Atlantis(insert other fictional cities) in one issue and then in the following issue or the next time it shows up its magically put back together with no explanation.

    (a few other people have already mention here)
    The destruction / demolition of places like this in the first place is a pet peeve of mine. There's a cool land full of dinosaurs in Antarctica? It'll get blown up. There's an island nation off the coast of Africa with lots of mutants? Deader than Dillinger. The Inhumans have a 10,000 year old city called Attilan full of Kree technology? It will get blown up three times in the couple decades since it was first written about. Plodex ship under the ice for millenia? Boom. Buncha Morlocks living under New York? Massacre! Atlantis falls into ruin more often than Swamp Castle (from Monty Python and the Holy Grail). Wakanda's even gotten it's turn under the wheel, thanks to Namor... And this only serves to make the current rulers of these places seem like the worst Kings ever. Atlantis and Attilan and (to a lesser extent) Wakanda somehow survived for thousands of years without the kind of cataclysmic nonsense that befalls them almost constantly since Namor, Blackagar and T'Challa took over...

    And it's not just comics, I hate that in all sorts of media, that the cool magical land that's been around for thousands (or even millions!) of years, suddenly blows up as soon as the story that introduced it is done with it. (Like The Land That Time Forgot. Wow. Been 'forgotten' for millions of years, and within 2 hours of being discovered, time sure as heck remembered it with a fiery vengeance!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight27 View Post
    No consistency with magic. It just does what the writer wants it to do. I feel like it's hard to build stakes with magic books because it can become a bit unclear what the character can do and what they can't. All there magic looks the same. Scarlet witch magic looks like doctor strange which also looks like brother voodoo magic.
    Oh yeah, I miss me some Marvel Handbook days, when magicians generally had three types of power, personal, trained and invocations, with the coolest being the invocations from otherdimensional entities like the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak or Vapors of Valtor or Images of Ikonn. People from Dr. Strange to Mordred the Mystic to Jennifer Kale were more or less using the same 'rules' of magic, while others, like Brother Voodoo and Daimon Hellstrom were less 'spellcasters' as people with some specific magical powers (like teleportation or being able to conjure hellfire).

    Now it's just whatever the writer wants the character to be able to do, and, whatever the writer *doesn't* want the character to be able to do. Dr. Strange has been shown teleporting the Defenders across time, space and dimensions, to visit other planets, and even once crapped out a magic ring of teleportation in like, *minutes,* to give to Nighthawk *because he was annoyed that the guy asked him for teleports so much?* But Bendis wants the Avengers to chat in the Quinjet on the way to the mission, so suddenly, Dr. Strange can't teleport anymore. Ugh.

    Which leads to another pet peeve, apart from inconsistent magic.

    Writers who wanted to write someone else, and therefore write the characters they are stuck with differently, because a teleporter (or whatever) messes with their story beats.

    If you didn't want to write someone who could teleport the team around, don't put ****ing Dr. Strange on your team! Find a magic-user who *isn't* known for teleporting. Not Brother Voodoo. Not Ilyanna. Try Amanda Sefton, or Daimon Hellstrom, or Nico Minoru, or Sebastian Druid. The Marvel Universe is hardly lacking for characters lying around waiting for use...
    Last edited by Sutekh; 05-19-2019 at 11:30 PM.

  13. #88
    Spectacular Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    The destruction / demolition of places like this in the first place is a pet peeve of mine. There's a cool land full of dinosaurs in Antarctica? It'll get blown up. There's an island nation off the coast of Africa with lots of mutants? Deader than Dillinger. The Inhumans have a 10,000 year old city called Attilan full of Kree technology? It will get blown up three times in the couple decades since it was first written about. Plodex ship under the ice for millenia? Boom. Buncha Morlocks living under New York? Massacre! Atlantis falls into ruin more often than Swamp Castle (from Monty Python and the Holy Grail). Wakanda's even gotten it's turn under the wheel, thanks to Namor... And this only serves to make the current rulers of these places seem like the worst Kings ever. Atlantis and Attilan and (to a lesser extent) Wakanda somehow survived for thousands of years without the kind of cataclysmic nonsense that befalls them almost constantly since Namor, Blackagar and T'Challa took over...

    And it's not just comics, I hate that in all sorts of media, that the cool magical land that's been around for thousands (or even millions!) of years, suddenly blows up as soon as the story that introduced it is done with it. (Like The Land That Time Forgot. Wow. Been 'forgotten' for millions of years, and within 2 hours of being discovered, time sure as heck remembered it with a fiery vengeance!)
    Yes to everything. Atlantis has been destroyed like 20 times in 80 years.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    ... or let them do what they prefer to do, give them more liberty. Someone took the example of Waid back up in the thread. We can all agree that Waid's run on the Avengers from, what, last year?, wasn't exactly memorable. Waid can be a great writer, but I think if you give him characters he doesn't really care about or is not interested in, the story will turn out average at best. Same goes for any writer, really.
    Is that what your boss puts up with..."I don't really like the job you gave me so I will half ass it..."

    If they don't like the characters and are not inspired maybe they should just work harder...or quit.

  15. #90
    Disney Subsidiary Personamanx's Avatar
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    People who stick around in fan communities to complain for years rather than accept that whether due to changes within themselves or the product, the product is no longer to their tastes. They could move forward to find something new to appreciate, and perhaps they do. But generally speaking, you don't get points for sticking around a comics shop and whining that you don't like anything currently published. You don't get them online either. Take up hiking or oil painting. I'm sure you see yourself as an expert critic, but I assure you that is not the case for 99% of people.
    Continuity, even in a "shared" comics universe is often insignificant if not largely detrimental to the quality of a comic.

    Die - Paper Girls - Runaways - The Wild Storm

    Nobody cares about what you don't like, they barely care about what you do like.

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