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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    If we're talking Osborn, I actually liked his turn a Iron Patriot. He's still a villain but he has to follow political red tape and do favors which gets him into weird situations with heroes. It was a fairly interesting dynamic that oftentimes found itself confused with what Osborn was because despite being top cop, even he still had bosses. Even he still had to answer to people which meant that his whole operation could go up assuming he didn't have funding (which I think was subject of an arc of Punisher and Dark Avengers). And what made it even better was that he really wasn't operating all that differently than the heroes had been which raises good questions about how people in the MU operate.

    I guess he wouldn't really be a hero in that regard, just a revamped villain, but it does skirt the line pretty close. I honestly feel like it was better direction to take the character in rather than him just be the final boss for the last two Spider-man runs with little build-up.
    Norman embraced evil a long time ago. His turn as Iron Patriot was, in part, about revenge. He's unable to reform because his Id was chemically unlocked.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    I routinely keep track of marvel villains who seek redemption; mostly because I'm a Thunderbolts fan. So do you know of any that are in a place where being depicted as one of the bad guys would be a step backwards?

    Ex. Dr. Franklin has been actively trying to distance himself from his past as Thunderball. He's the second black scientist to be set on a different path by the Wakandans (see: Nightshade).

    And I've heard that Titania and the hubby have found a new way to work out their aggressions.

    Not sure about Sabretooth. I'll wait for war of realms to end.
    Who have I missed?
    Speaking of thunderball, I saw the recent captain America, where bulldozer still had his helmet. I wasn’t aware that was a permanent thing.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Personally, I wasn't even considering Roger to be on the fence. Not sure if it's Jessica's love or something internal that changed him. But he's pretty much done with the 12 steps of a face turn.

    If Tom Foster hadn't picked the identity back up, I could have seen Dr. Franklin as some kind of radioactive Goliath (since that was his field of study). Not sure what he'd do now. But I would prefer that he not stay with the Wrecking Crew. I also wish that Titania had kept her ionic(?) upgrade.
    Yeah, I thought Franklin might make a good Goliath too.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    If we're talking Osborn, I actually liked his turn a Iron Patriot. He's still a villain but he has to follow political red tape and do favors which gets him into weird situations with heroes. It was a fairly interesting dynamic that oftentimes found itself confused with what Osborn was because despite being top cop, even he still had bosses. Even he still had to answer to people which meant that his whole operation could go up assuming he didn't have funding (which I think was subject of an arc of Punisher and Dark Avengers). And what made it even better was that he really wasn't operating all that differently than the heroes had been which raises good questions about how people in the MU operate.

    I guess he wouldn't really be a hero in that regard, just a revamped villain, but it does skirt the line pretty close. I honestly feel like it was better direction to take the character in rather than him just be the final boss for the last two Spider-man runs with little build-up.
    What was fun with Osborn was that everyone was screwing with him and you just felt sort of bad for him. Oh, the street level folks like Scorpion, Bullseye, and even Taskmaster were on board, but Doom was getting annoyed, Emma and Namor were doing their thing, Loki was basically using him as a noose in the most complicated suicide plot ever, you had Daken doing whatever he was doing, and then there was the Void.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    I'm gonna say Sabretooth, because he's sucked at it since 2003. lol

    As an anti-hero, he got a bit more character depth, and had the potential for so much better if Bunn had gotten to keep him. Pak screwed up his character six ways from Sunday & he went out on the lowest note possible.

    Rosenberg says he's doing some 70's stuff with Creed in WoR, and Hell Creed wasn't even a mutant during that period. lol So I expect more jobbing there. I gave up on reading Creed as a villain. Unless I hear he does something besides be a losing meathead.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 05-11-2019 at 08:26 PM.

  6. #21
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Batroc has his niche as honorable merc, but someone will inevitably have him workimg for Hydra or whatever again.
    tag the movie made me cry

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandEleven View Post
    Give a villan enough time in the limelight, and someone will eventually write him as an Antihero.

    Can't wait to see how they spin Thanos...
    the same way starlin did
    tag the movie made me cry

  8. #23
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    Quentin?

  9. #24
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    There's absolutely no reason to make Emma Frost a villain other than "WHAAAAAAAAAAH, I WANT THINGS BACK LIKE THEY WERE WHEN I WAS GROWING UP! WHAAAAAAAH!". Which, sadly, is the default mode for a good part of Marvel writers and editors these days. There's nothing you can do with her as a villain you can't do with Selene or even Lady Mastermind.

    Juggernaut really has no reason to be a villain either; his motivation was always limited to Xavier's issues, but at this point feels forced, specially since Xavier hasn't led the X-men in a long time.

    Loki works better as an agent of chaos, that could help or harm the heroes depending on the story.

    Galactus should have stayed as Lifebringer, a complete waste.

  10. #25
    Mighty Member My Two Cents's Avatar
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    I don't even know if Marvel knows what a villain is currently and how they should act.
    The most recent true villain AKA evil portrayal I can think of is the original Old Man Logan
    short run. I am sure there have been a few recent stories if which a villain knew there
    role and did not show up in top hat and tails

  11. #26
    Incredible Member GrandEleven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    That already happened but it was early on.
    Very true ... but that was long before he even went full Tyrant. Wasn't he initially much more neutral/abstract? Been a long time sense I read thew older stuff.

    I guess is was thinking more about the "Mad Tyrant" title that he currently holds that's pushed him squarely into diabolical villian territory.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandEleven View Post
    Very true ... but that was long before he even went full Tyrant. Wasn't he initially much more neutral/abstract? Been a long time sense I read thew older stuff.

    I guess is was thinking more about the "Mad Tyrant" title that he currently holds that's pushed him squarely into diabolical villian territory.
    he was an evil tyrant in all of the old stories until infinity war where he then just became a self-motivated anti-hero who was more disillusioned with his ability to accomplish his old grand goals instead of actually having any change of heart or anything
    tag the movie made me cry

  13. #28
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    Loki has evolved past straight up villainy. He is more an opportunist who sides with whichever party can further whatever plan he has in motion. Sometimes that involves helping the hero, and other times the villain. Dude is pretty quick to back stab them at a moment's notice. Which is as it should be.

    The last time Magneto was a straight up bad guy was, what, during Planet X? Even then, Marvel was quick to retcon that one. Magneto is more a morally grey character. His intentions are noble, but his methods leave alot to be desired. Heck, I think Xavier has done more reprehensible acts in the last 20 years than Magneto has.

    Absorbing Man was trying to turn his life around until he got screwed over in Immortal Hulk. Thunderball has gone straight. Sabretooth worked as an antihero while Wolverine was dead. But Pak was quick to undo that. Sandman should have remained a hero. Lizard is no longer a villain. Gibbon, from what was shown in recent ASM issues, was trying to sort himself out.

  14. #29

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    Venom
    Galactus
    Black Cat
    Magneto
    Loki
    Superior Spider-Man
    Emma Frost (hoping her regression is resolved and forgotten sooner rather than later)

  15. #30
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    Emma cant be a hero while Jean is around..they basically rubbed that Cyclops relationship in everyone's face during her Morrison induced death exile. Made sure Cyclops was a heel.the whole time...now he's not a heel anymore magically as Jean is back in the mix.
    Last edited by MichelleDiMera; 05-12-2019 at 08:00 PM.

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