Guess what I'm saying is that he wasn't a clear cut villain in those specific issues. He exposed Bucky's past as the Winter Soldier to world. And he tested Bucky's commitment to the Captain America identity. The public deserved to know what the Winter Soldier had done. And Bucky did need to be tested. Ultimately, it was proven that his heart wasn't in it. In that way, Zemo was protecting Cap's legacy. And he was re-disfigured saving Steve's life. If you count this as undoing his hero turn, what about Hawkeye: Blindshot? Was that villainy or him reuniting two brothers and testing Clint?
Juggernaut tends to vary depending on what book he’s in,,,,,on Thor they came to blows, and he was only stopped when Thor summoned countless Hammers.......in Uncanny Cain suddenly cares about Mutants Plight and was willing to rejoin the team for the time being......
you can look at no escape as not totally reversing the anti-hero stuff but then brubaker used him again as an actual cartoon villain in his dumb post-bucky cap book that was some buffoonery that ended with with jetpacks and space
spencer fixed zemo by having him believe in the greater good of hydra order so he can still be a villain but with some more of that self-righteous grayness
so of course rosenberg pushes him back towards the post-brubaker moustache twirling again
he was great when dennis hopeless wrote him, though
remender was solid, too
I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate
I think Osborn is still evil......just nuttier than ever.....
we're talking about 2 separate individuals. it's like comparing a looney toons character of today to one from the black and white era. they evolved over time. in Magneto's case, a personality was given to a wild eyed 1-dimensional mad man. and i'm not sure that hewas even considered to be Jewish when he "enslaved" people in the Savageland or beat up the Toad.
there's actually nothing unusual about that. he experienced those tactics first hand. that would constitute his schooling. and there really are not that many playbooks. warfare and terrorism isn't exclusive to the nazi party. the United States has detention camps. we utilize propaganda. we also have the implied threat of nuclear warfare working for us.
For me
Prowler
Puma
Songbird
That's just it. He didn't evolve. He just got a Freudian excuse that made less and less sense over time and frankly comes across as pretty offensive when you examine it. He's still the same genocidal, murderous, supremacist asshole from the Silver Age.
Mags is as bipolar as his daughter Lorna, it's just not as talked about with his generation.
Yeah, Sandman as a would-be Avenger was intriguing, and then, bam, I see him back on the Sinister Six with Doc Ock and the Vulture or whoever, and I'm like, 'whaaat?'
It amuses me that the Avengers can field entire lineups of ex-crooks and villains, starting with Wanda, Pietro and Clint, and including regular Avengers like Natasha, Vision, Simon, etc.
Last edited by Sutekh; 05-20-2019 at 07:19 AM.
One of the best redemption stories I’ve read involved scarlet spider Kaine. I love it when a character owns up to what they did instead of making excuses. In think a new generation of villains are needed in today’s age.
he doesn't. I just took issue with the Nazi comparison. read my other post. I made sure to end it by calling him a terrorist.
no idea what you're talking about. maybe you'll more clearly explain it. I see nothing offensive about his current portrayal. he's definitely murderous. from some angles, he's definitely an asshole. anti-mutant bigots aren't their own race. so you can't really genocide them. "supremacist" is a real loaded term. and I think that he's quite a bit past that way of thinking. he's had his own mutancy taken away, for starters. but he's also regularly sleeping with Briar. I think you're stuck on your original impression of him. for contrast, look at Joseph or Grant Morrison's version of the character. those latter two lack nuance.
Last edited by Michael Watkins; 05-20-2019 at 10:39 AM.