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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    i just woke up are tony and janet married yet
    I doubt that relationship will survive Slott leaving the book. It has at least finally been acknowledged in another series, as Viv and Nadia discussed it in last week's Unstoppable Wasp. Viv was explaining everyone's relationships to Nadia, and when it came to Tony Stark, him dating Janet was mentioned. Since Janet is Nadia's step-mother and adoptive mother, she of course already knew.

  2. #32
    Spectacular Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    I'm not going to re-litigate the marriage of BP and Storm, but I still think it was a massive mistake that Marvel annulled their marriage. I know many people feel that it was too fast or without merit or seen as pandering, but I loved finally seeing two major black characters together and for me it worked.
    Marvel has no problem with marrying two white people (even if they brake them up too), but the hardly ever couple up their black characters.
    Misty had a long-time relationship with Danny.
    Jean-Paul is married to Kyle (who happens to be black).
    Luke is married to Jessica.
    Falcon "dated" Misty but he seems to have a deeper relationship with Omni-Jane.
    James Rhodes seems to be back with Carol.
    Bishop is forever single when not in some fantasy world messing with Jean.

    Speaking of Jean, more redheads been married than any other race of people in marvel:

    1) Jean to Scott
    2) MJ to Peter
    3) Marlo to Rick Jones
    4) Crystal to Quicksilver
    5) Matt to Milla Donovan
    6) Wanda to Vision (yes, I consider her a redhead)
    7) Natasha (BW) to Alexei Shostakov
    8) Medusa to Black Bolt
    9) Scott Lang to Peggy Rae
    10) Alicia Masters to Ben
    11) Heather Hudson to James Hudson
    12) Hellcat to Hellstrom

    The sad thing is they all are either divorced or widowed. Nobody should marry a readhead in the Marvel Universe.

  3. #33

  4. #34

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    IN the case of Marvel specifically, it has to do with the kind of male-centric boy's club with which it started in the '60s, where more or less marriage was treated as a "ball and chain". This was especially the case in the Lee-Kirby FF run, where Lee's portrayal of Reed and Sue's long relationship, engagement, and marriage was, and is, a sexist nightmare. The relationship between Janet and Hank in the early Tales to Astonish Ant Man stories were somewhat better but that didn't last once Roy Thomas got a hold on to them and he made them into this masochistic mess long before Jim Shooter decided to torpedo that relationship (and in the process Hank Pym's viability as a superhero to the extent that he ever had it).

    Fact is Marvel editorial and writers treat the classic Marvel era as a kind of bible and what that means is basically imbibing and transfusing a lot of the Mad Men-era kind of attitudes that still infected those stories forward. Marvel writers and editorial across the ages generally didn't look at women as equal to men, and it was basically women as mechanics to motivate male protagonists. And so on. Attempts to change that or move past that tended to be treated with a certain hostility.

    I will say that in general most of Marvel's superheroes tend to get into relationships with other superheroines -- Reed/Sue, Hank/Janet, Scott/Jean, Rogue/Gambit, Hawkeye/Mockingbird, Ororo/T'Challa, and more recently, Luke/Jessica. The reason they either work out or don't work out is more or less on the order of celebrity marriages. Both famous, both heroes, strong personalities and so on, so on that level it's kind of understandable.

    Peter/MJ is kind of unique for being a superhero/civilian romance and marriage and basically the only romance and relationship of that kind in Marvel. In general Marvel doesn't have many prominent roles for civilian supporting characters in their stories and one reason why Spider-Man became this big hero like Batman and Superman is the presence of civilian supporting characters in those stories, which all three heroes share. Mary Jane was also a more modern take on the classic love interest and she is, quite ironically, the best female character that Stan Lee ever wrote and the most original one even if it was by accident. I say ironically because Lee didn't really intend or see her as a love interest, he intended that to be Gwen who was a pretty lame character when he wrote her.

  5. #35
    Boisterously Confused
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    Story-crafting-wise, some of the marriages that predate the Bronze Age became untenable over time since the female's role was to be the hostage of the month/exposition funnel/sidekick for the male character (Ant-Man and the Wasp is probably the clearest case). The Invisible Woman was allowed to outgrow that cliche without splitting up the marriage, but then the Fantastic Four has always been more about an adventuring family than an adventuring team.

    Probably the only pre-1990s superhero marriage with both characters equally respected was DC's Hawkman and Hawkwoman (before they turned them into a such an indescribable continuity mess).

  6. #36
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    i just woke up are tony and janet married yet
    I think Wanda and Jericho are first
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    That is kind of a cop out...Police, Firefighters, EMS, Medical Professionals...they all make it work. If you are Spider-Man running out on patrol you dial it back to make time for family. Teams like the FF and Avengers...Like I said...Reed and Sue make it work. Ben and Alicia just got married. There is a little more stability in those situations.
    I disagree with this comparison. First line responder professions don't face the things on a day to day basis where a strong probability of live and death exists. Its certainly more than a normal civilian life, not like a superhero. The closest comparison to super hero life in this regard would be active duty military in a combat zone.

  8. #38
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    I think there are a lot of reasons. One I haven't seen mentioned yet is the wish fulfillment power fantasy escapism of many Marvel comics. Many of the characters are gorgeous, hot beyond belief, smart, skilled, worshiped (sometimes literally) often rich... I mean even the "everyman" of the MU sleeps with supermodels and bombshells. If you're escaping into that character, I've gotta think you're imagining who you'll sleep with and in what order and combination, not who you'll agree to give half your stuff and wash their dishes every other day.

  9. #39
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    I think there are a lot of reasons. One I haven't seen mentioned yet is the wish fulfillment power fantasy escapism of many Marvel comics. Many of the characters are gorgeous, hot beyond belief, smart, skilled, worshiped (sometimes literally) often rich... I mean even the "everyman" of the MU sleeps with supermodels and bombshells. If you're escaping into that character, I've gotta think you're imagining who you'll sleep with and in what order and combination, not who you'll agree to give half your stuff and wash their dishes every other day.
    You depress me with your accuracy.

  10. #40
    Mighty Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Part of the problem is that because most Marvel comics are open ended sooner or later some writer is going to want to do the shocking breakup story.

    The other is that Superhero stories are action and adventure first and everything else second. That's how they are designed, and that's why people love them

    Marriage doesn't inherently add anything to that. Often times it can detract. Do we really want a domestic scene when we can see someone get punched in the face? I sure don't.

    Marriage can work in a superhero story, sure but it's the exception rather than the rule.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    IMHO, it seems to be largely to keep storytelling options open in a open-ended medium if the character is one with well-established love interests. It is also worth noting that there are quite a few characters who aren't showing to be dating or actively looking for a significant other. So, while this topic often gets people discussing relationships that the Powers That Be often cut short or leave in a constant on again off again state, I think it's also worth remembering that not all characters are written for that in the first place.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    marriage has ruined a number of characters
    Which ones?

  13. #43
    Mighty Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Luke Cage and Jessica Jones has lasted for a while

    Cap Britian is married?

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageturner View Post
    Luke Cage and Jessica Jones has lasted for a while

    Cap Britian is married?
    I believe he still is. It's easier to keep a marriage if you're a character that only shows up every 5 or so years.
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  15. #45
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I'm not going to re-litigate the marriage of BP and Storm, but I still think it was a massive mistake that Marvel annulled their marriage. I know many people feel that it was too fast or without merit or seen as pandering, but I loved finally seeing two major black characters together and for me it worked.
    Marvel has no problem with marrying two white people (even if they brake them up too), but the hardly ever couple up their black characters.
    Misty had a long-time relationship with Danny.
    Jean-Paul is married to Kyle (who happens to be black).
    Luke is married to Jessica.
    Falcon "dated" Misty but he seems to have a deeper relationship with Omni-Jane.
    James Rhodes seems to be back with Carol.
    Bishop is forever single when not in some fantasy world messing with Jean.

    Speaking of Jean, more redheads been married than any other race of people in marvel:

    1) Jean to Scott
    2) MJ to Peter
    3) Marlo to Rick Jones
    4) Crystal to Quicksilver
    5) Matt to Milla Donovan
    6) Wanda to Vision (yes, I consider her a redhead)
    7) Natasha (BW) to Alexei Shostakov
    8) Medusa to Black Bolt
    9) Scott Lang to Peggy Rae
    10) Alicia Masters to Ben
    11) Heather Hudson to James Hudson
    12) Hellcat to Hellstrom

    The sad thing is they all are either divorced or widowed. Nobody should marry a readhead in the Marvel Universe.
    The issue with this is putting two characters together that quickly because they are the same color and hold popularity is a bad idea if you do not or cannot support the decision with masterful story telling. Story telling that would easily convince anyone that there was no way these two characters did not belong together.

    The other downside of that pairing is that it successfully took the wind out of Storm sails. She was very much on an ongoing uptick before she got placed in the Black Panther comic line. But when they where paired together she got less panel time and started to decrease in popularity because of it. It's something the character is still somewhat recovering from today.

    (Edit: Before you or anyone else responds...think how demeaning and negative reinforcing of stereotypes it is to suggest that all black people must know, like, agree, or fall in love with one another simply because they are black. Storm and Black Panther barely interact with one another before they got married. Even with her showing up as a very minor character in Black Panthers title before they were married you could count the actual issues on 2 hands before the church bells were ringing. Can't blame fans for not being on board with that)

    As to the topic...
    The issue with marrying character in general at Marvel has more so to do with the "mandate" to create controversy that will tick off fans, has not only run its course but I feel fans are worn out by it. It's no longer "shocking", its not as interesting, and it very much predictable.

    Not saying every relationship should go on an on. But marvel should have a handful of characters who get together and stay together no matter what new writer comes in or what is going on at the time. They have to make marriage and relationships matter again.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 05-13-2019 at 08:49 PM.
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